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Wayne Besen
PO Box 25491
Brooklyn, NY 11202
I was in the Tea Lounge in Park Slope minding my own business and reading the newspaper. A man walks in with his daughter and takes a Dr. Seuss book out of his bag and begins to read a nursery rhyme out loud to his kid. Obviously, no one can concentrate anymore and three people moved their seats.
Just because you have a kid does not give you the right to be rude and obnoxious. I don't read my newspaper out loud, so you have no business reading nursery rhymes for everyone else to hear. The place to read to children is in your own home, not in coffee shops or airports. This is the third time this has happened to me in the last week. Something must be done. This is becoming worse than cell phones in the movie theatre.
Am I wrong about this? Have I just become an old, cranky man? What is the proper etiquette when it comes to reading to children?
14 Comments:
It's not you, Wayne. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to spawn. Trust me, I work with a woman who thinks the world revolves around her because she's pregnant. I mean, just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. Damn breeders.
No, Wayne, it is not you. It seems that most people today fail to grasp the simple fact that they are not the only ones who exist in the world. Basic decency and common courtesy is in short supply these days. You went to the coffee shop and wanted to have a relaxed time with your paper and a cup of java. That is hardly an outrageous request.
posted by Anonymous, at
11/29/2005 1:55 PM
The british writer Lynn Truss who wrote the bestseller on punctuation called Eats Shoots and Leaves, just wrote another book on this very topic called, Talk to the Hand the Utter Bloody Rudeness of the World. I think you had every right to ask him to stop, but then the asshole might have gone balistic on you. Gary (NJ)
posted by Anonymous, at
11/29/2005 2:44 PM
To be honest Wayne, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I see so many children who are allowed to run around unsupervised in restaurants and other public venues, that to see a parent taking an interest in minding his/her child's activities and keeping them still wouldn't upset me. It's better than listening to all those people loudly talking into their cell phones just to prove they have some sort of life.
posted by Anonymous, at
11/29/2005 3:01 PM
I understand your point, but when you're trying to read, it is annoying and distracting. I used to get annoyed at Borders when they hired screechy lousy bands to play in the coffee shop area when i was trying to read.
posted by Anonymous, at
11/29/2005 4:08 PM
You should've started reading your paper out loud.
posted by Anonymous, at
11/29/2005 4:54 PM
You should've started reading your paper out loud.
posted by Anonymous, at
11/29/2005 4:54 PM
This post is a first, for me. I read your topics here almost daily, Wayne, and I almost always find myself agreeing with them. As a young man who grew up a devout Mormon, married, and had children before finally arriving at a place of acceptance of my sexuality, your book was invaluable to me. It took me a long time to reconcile and make peace with the universe as a gay man, and it meant the end of my world paradigm. I have found many of my views shifting as a result of it, including religious and political views.
However, as a father of three kids, I'm a little surprised to discover the sometimes latent animosity that occurs towards parenting and childrearing (I am not saying that you blatently demonstrate that, but your post reminded me of it). Should this particular father have demonstrated more tact and understanding of those around him? Perhaps. Can I also see his side of the story? Yes. He was in a public place which was NOT a library--Are there signs in the Tea Lounge asking people to remain silent...? If he was having a CONVERSATION with his child, or if he was having a conversation with another ADULT, would you be as put out over the 'noise'? (the volume level would have been similar, in such situations, after all). If you answered negatively to either of the above alternate scenarios, I would question why you are more antagonistic to a parent reading to a child.
It's my hope that "the gay community" (using the term loosely, as I'm not sure such a thing exists) can make peace with "the parenting community," given that as time progresses and progress is made, the two may not be so mutually exclusive after all, as gays have and raise children of their own.
Having said that, if "Tea Lounges" have unwritten rules that one is not allowed to converse or make verbal noise, perhaps someone should have politely educated the offending father.
Thanks for the viewpoints, Wayne--I have and continue to appreciate them!!!
Just a quick note to Darin, don't forget that many gay people have children today also, and not just lesbians. So, although less of us have children, we're still a big part of the "parenting community". It's not us vs them. ps..I heard a statistic on Logo television that over 1 million children in this country today are being raised by same-sex couples. A fact that the 'family values' crowd either doesnt know or conveniently chooses to ignore.
posted by Anonymous, at
11/30/2005 8:47 AM
Unless the guy was screaming, I hardly see how it's a big deal. If it were two adults having a conversation, would it have upset you?
posted by Anonymous, at
11/30/2005 12:27 PM
At Washington, D.C. Dulles Airport in 1986 I was trapped in a rental car line. The line for the competing car rental firm had a man and his boy holding a ice cream cone. I asked him to stop his boy from running around us so that I would not get ice cream on my suit coat. He screamed at me in a loud New York City accent: "Go fuck yourself you homo kid hater." Being from the laid back West Coast, I almost lost it, but then I remembered how rude New York City men are to everybody and didn't take it personally. (His kid finally spilled it on the floor and started balling!)
This experience and the LDS poster who accussed you of being a kid hater is typical of many parents. They are blinded by their children who they believe are not bothering anybody.
Well, hello, kids do bother me for some good reasons, which is why I do not have kids, and I would like you to be polite, as Jesus tells you to be, so that I do not have to put up with your kids. It is impolite of you to surmise that I hate kids.
My grandmother was born in the 1890s and told me kids were to be seen and not heard. She said kids were beat by adults back then if they violated this rule.
posted by Anonymous, at
11/30/2005 2:12 PM
"Am I wrong about this? Have I just become an old, cranky man? What is the proper etiquette when it comes to reading to children?"
DUH YES you cranky and obviously lonely Old Man!! And what in the world is wrong with the rest of you gays? JELOUS?? Johnny in Minneapolis, get pregant you ass and see the wonder and JOY of growing a life inside you!!!
The pettines of this group complaining about a man reading to his daughter in a PUBLIC place. The place is PUBLIC not a private one. Get livese you complaining morons!!
Quick replies to a couple of the other “Anonymous” members:
First: I realize that “the gay community” and “the parenting community” are NOT mutually exclusive—that was my point. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clearer. Thanks to the post-er for clarifying it—I agree with you!
To the member who referred to me as “The LDS poster who accussed [Wayne] of being a kid hater”:
I did NOT say that Wayne was “a kid hater.” Please go back and read my post in question. I blatently said that I was NOT saying that Wayne’s post was an example of hostility, but that it reminded me of some that I have encountered in the past in others. The father who told you to fuck off and used other names was WAY out of line, and I think I would have asked him to reign in his child’s reckless behavior , were I in your position. I am not sure why you assume that I am “blinded by my children”—were you ever to meet my kids, you would see that they have been taught to behave politely, respectfully, and quietly in public. Just like you, disrespectful, rude, and loud children likewise bother me—and, like you, I am not afraid to say so in public. Some parents are receptive, some are assholes, like the one you encountered. It is my hope that none of us will jump to conclusions based on our parental status, just like I hope none would jump to conclusions based on our sexual orientation.
To clarify a little more: I am NOT Mormon anymore. I am an openly gay man who rejects the authority of the Mormon Church, and am very comfortable with my sexuality. I am also a father of three young kids. I see no need for being gay or being a father to negatively influence my role as a parent, to compel me to ‘be bothered by kids,’ OR to have to tolerate ‘disrespectful or loud behavior’ by children. We are all PEOPLE—and hopefully we can respect and help each other be better, regardless of what our status may or may not be in either of the above ‘categories’.
--Darin, “the LDS poster”
P.S.--I hope it was clear that I think Wayne is AWESOME, and I agree with his posts 95% of the time... Keep up the good work, Wayne!
posted by Anonymous, at
11/30/2005 3:57 PM
To make myself very clear I was posting in regards to the many people complaining about the Father reading to his daughter in a Public place not about misbehaved children running around unattended in a public place. And to Johnny in Minneaplolis, I would just like to add, there is no way I would trust anyone who makes those kinds of judgemental assinine comments.
