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Wayne Besen
PO Box 25491
Brooklyn, NY 11202
"This is what happens when religion takes over politics. Rational negotiation becomes impossible; victory becomes a theological mandate; no end becomes feasible except conflict; and in this case, some of the actors actually want that conflict to be apocalyptic. We have to understand the fundamentalist mindset we are grappling with. It is not rational in worldly terms. It is other-worldly - and rational only under those theological constructs. For those reasons, it is the biggest threat to Western freedom since the totalitarianisms of the last century; and easily the most mortal theat to Israel since its founding. It cannot be disarmed or reasoned with; it can only be defeated."
9 Comments:
I know it's too late to say this, but I feel we would be better off if Bush was'nt re-Elected, I hope that this war will drive more voters to get republicans out of office in 2008, Also they care (nothing) about the enviroment and global warming.
Gee, Fred Phelps and his ilk along with all the religious right wing fanatics in our own country would have much in common with Hezbollah. The same goes for the article on Turkey too. Our own homegrown fanatics are not so far removed from it all and would probably do to us what Hezbollah is doing if they had their way. Sullivan is right of course, one of the few times I've agreed with him.
I Sullivans article to be a typical American/Western view, one which totally ignores the reality of what is going on in Lebanon.
I would just like to state one thing, Hezballah, of the 43 sucide attacks carried out during the Israeli invasion and occupton of southern Lebanon, only 3 of the attackers would be what we call 'fundementlaists'. The rest included Chrisitans, Drazi, Shite by relgion as well as union leaders, members of the Communist party and a female high school teacher.
The situation is far more complex than Sullivan makes out to be.
I would also like to point people to an excellent article by George Monibot
I may not agree with the actions of Hezballah, but I can understand thier reasons....something that is required to reach a soultion.
posted by Evil European, at
8/09/2006 11:27 AM
Israel is an illegitimate terrorist state. Their ongoing genocidal campaign against the Palestinians is the cause to all of the so-called "terrorism".
posted by Anonymous, at
8/09/2006 1:27 PM
"Israel is an illegitimate terrorist state. Their ongoing genocidal campaign against the Palestinians is the cause to all of the so-called "terrorism"
What an idotic statment? Ever hear of Sept 11? Ever hear of Madrid and London bombings? Ever hear of the Taliban? I don't recall any Palestinian issues in these places. Why is it that anywhere Islamists take root ends in war and destruction?
Islamic Fundamentalism is the true evil. How sick and psycho to see it any other way.
Not to be prejudiced, but Paul has a point. Muslims are always bitching about the Crusades, but they came about because the muslims were invading christian europe FIRST. Afghanistan had a peaceful thriving Buddhist community (remember the giant stone Buddha statues that the taliban blew up) until the muslim armies invaded and forced them to convert to islam at the point of sword. By the way, Buddhism is the only world religion that has never had a war fought in its name. ps...I am not a Buddhist--just recognizing the facts!
posted by Anonymous, at
8/09/2006 4:12 PM
Although we must understand that the terrorists are not indicative of the entire muslim faith, we cannot deny that they are in the lead in a vast number of Arab countries. Unfortunately, these zealots have misinterpreted the Koran, or perhaps I should say, coaxed it to their needs as the Christian zealots do. I also realize that the people of many of these nations are brainwashed to believe that Isreal is out to eat their babies and rape their women, and of course the US is out to do the same. But we have to let Isreal defend itself. The innocents of both nations are being hurt at the hands of a terrorist organization. And, from a report I heard this morning, the bastards are using Adobe Photo to make it appear as though Isreal is attacking civilian populations. They are lying all around. Israel is not the terrorist state. The Palestinians refuse to allow them to exist, and thereby wish to wipe them off the planet, not just their maps.
As the son of '60's activists, I have learned over time to try to look at both sides of any argument and understand both viewpoints. It's the only way to gain dialogue. It just seems that Hezbolla and similar groups are not concerned with dialogue. They don't care what happens to the innocent women and children of their faith. They use the deaths of the innocents to promote more violence. When does it end? It can only end when the nations that are sponsering these groups stand up and say enough is enough.
I think this is what this nation is working toward. Maybe Bush will finally do something right.
posted by jekelhyde, at
8/09/2006 9:55 PM
Wow Wayne! You really got the Zionazis worked up.
To the idiot who said "Ever hear of Sept 11th? Ever hear of the Madrid and London bombings?:
If you don't want to sound like a complete moron, you should consider reading up on these issues. For example, the Madrid bombings were not carried out by muslim terrorists. They were carried out by Basque separatists.
As reprehensible as they were, September 11th and the bombings in London make sense if you are able to see beyond your own nose. America and Great Britain are Israel's two main allies. Given that the US sends BILLIONS of dollars to Israel each year to help them persecute the Palestinians, I think it's obvious why London and New York would be targeted.
But hey, don't strain yourself trying to understand why they hate us so much. It's less intellectually taxing to view the world like Rambo. Arabs are less than human, "they hate us for our freedom", "they are all fanatics", yadda yadda yadda.
There is no denying the fact that some Arabs have responded to how they are treated by retreating into a dangerous, dogmatic, fundamentalist ideology. However, the sick ideology of Zionism is much more deadly given the fact that its adherents have one of the most advanced militaries in the world at their disposal.
posted by Anonymous, at
8/09/2006 11:01 PM
The State of Israel was established in 1948. Ever since, there has been continuous violence between Jews and Arabs in Israel, and between Israel and its neighbors. Sometimes, the violence was low-level and even latent. And every once in a while, the violence escalated into open warfare, as now. Whenever full- scale violence broke out, there was an immediate debate about what started it, as though that mattered. We are now in the midst of warfare between Israel and Palestine in Gaza and between Israel and Lebanon. And the world is engaged in its usual futile debate about how to reduce the open state of warfare to low-level violence.
Every Israeli government has wished to create a situation in which the world and Israel's neighbors recognize its existence as a state and intergroup/interstate violence ceases. Israel has never been able to achieve this. When the level of violence is relatively low, the Israeli public is split about what strategy to pursue. But when it escalates into warfare, the Jewish Israelis and world Jewry tend to rally around the government.
In reality, Israel's basic strategy since 1948 has been to rely on two things in the pursuit of its objectives: a strong military, and strong outside Western support. So far this strategy has worked in one sense: Israel still survives. The question is how much longer this strategy will in fact continue to work.
The source of outside support has shifted over time. We forget completely that in 1948 the crucial military support for Israel came from the Soviet Union and its eastern European satellites. When the Soviet Union pulled back, it was France that came to fill the role. France was engaged in a revolution in Algeria, and it saw Israel as a crucial element in defeating the Algerian national liberation movement. But when Algeria became independent in 1962, France dropped Israel because it then sought to maintain ties with a now- independent Algeria.
It is only after that moment that the United States moved into its present total support of Israel. One major element in this turn-around was the Israeli military victory in the Six Days War in 1967. In this war, Israel conquered all the territories of the old British Mandate of Palestine, as well as more. It proved its ability to be a strong military presence in the region. It transformed the attitude of world Jewry from one in which only about 50% really approved of the creation of Israel into one which had the support of the large majority of world Jewry, for whom Israel had now become a source of pride. This is the moment when the Holocaust became a major ideological justification for Israel and its policies.
After 1967, the Israeli governments never felt they had to negotiate anything with the Palestinians or with the Arab world. They offered one-sided settlements but these were always on Israeli terms. Israel wouldn't negotiate with Nasser. Then it wouldn't negotiate with Arafat. And now it won't negotiate with so-called terrorists. Instead, it has relied on successive shows of military strength.
Israel is now engaged in the exact same catastrophic blunder, from its own point of view, as George Bush's invasion of Iraq. Bush thought that a show of military strength would establish U.S. presence unquestionably in Iraq and intimidate the rest of the world. Bush has discovered that Iraqi resistance was far more formidable militarily than anticipated, that American political allies in Iraq were far less reliable than he assumed they would be, and that the U.S. public's support of the war was far more fragile than he expected. The United States is heading towards a humiliating withdrawal from Iraq.
Israel's current military campaign is a direct parallel of Bush's invasion of Iraq. The Israeli generals are already noting that Hezbollah's military is far more formidable than anticipated, that U.S. allies in the region are already taking wide distance from the United States and Israel (note the Iraqi government's support of Lebanon and now that of the Saudi government), and soon will discover that the Israeli public's support is more fragile than expected. Already the Israeli government is reluctant to send land troops into Lebanon, largely because of what it thinks will be the reaction of its own people inside Israel. Israel is heading towards a humiliating truce arrangement.
What the Israeli governments do not realize is that neither Hamas nor Hezbollah need Israel. It is Israel that needs them, and needs them desperately. If Israel wants not to become a Crusader state that is in the end extinguished, it is only Hamas and Hezbollah that can guarantee the survival of Israel. It is only when Israel is able to come to terms with them, as the deeply-rooted spokespersons of Palestinian and Arab nationalism, that Israel can live in peace.
Achieving a stable peace settlement will be extremely difficult. But the pillars of Israel's present strategy - its own military strength and the unconditional support of the United States - constitute a very thin reed. Its military advantage is diminishing and will diminish steadily in the years to come. And in the post-Iraqi years, the United States may well drop Israel in the same way that France did in the 1960s.
Israel's only real guarantee will be that of the Palestinians. And to get this guarantee, Israel will need to rethink fundamentally its strategy for survival.
posted by Anonymous, at
8/09/2006 11:07 PM
