Wayne Besen - Author, Activist, Columnist, Public Speaker

Tuesday, January 02, 2007

(Vancouver: A Panorama of HELL)

(Weekly Column)

Dear Pastor:

Thank you so much for sending me on this crucial missionary trip to the den of iniquity known as Canada. My dearest reverend, I can barely express my deep gratitude for this fact-finding opportunity. As you know, this will do wonders for my career in ministry. If there is one thing that matters to God's people, it is learning the ins and outs of gay sex.

Yes, we must investigate this Sin from every angle and be bold enough to articulate our missionary position without reservation. Only then will we understand its thrust into the USofA and be able to beat off this brawny beast and get America over the moral hump.

It has now been a week since I left the south for the cold and rainy city of Vancouver. As requested, here is my report from the heart of the damp, New Sodom on Canada's left coast:

First, I am absolutely shocked the city isn't in ruins, considering homosexual marriage is legal throughout this notoriously nelly nation. For years, we have warned our flock that two men or two women marrying will lead to the downfall of civilization. Yet, Canada, believe it or not, still seems quite civilized.

It is amazing how they pull off such deception. While God works in mysterious ways, Satan works in mischievous ways and I suspect he might be on the city of Vancouver's payroll. He may even be the mayor - but I'm still researching. I learned in seminary how important it is to dot your I's and cross your T's before accusing one of being Satan.

But if Lucifer were not running Vancouver, how do you explain that the trains still run on time, hot and sour soup is still served hot and sour, and business is booming? Even New Years Eve was more calm than chaotic. Amazingly, the hetero partiers didn't let the occasional same-sex couple holding hands ruin their buzz. Imagine a place where straight guys do shots without wanting to shoot homosexuals? What has the world come to?

What particularly surprised me was the number of heterosexual couples who still remain in this licentious land. I was expecting the city to be gayer than a Colorado revival meeting. But most people appeared to be straight - just as they were before the invasion of the homosexual agenda.

My heart went out to these poor folks and I did all I could to save their souls. Standing on the street corner of Granville and Robson, I handed out Bible tracts and warned how the homosexuals were going to recruit them into the lifestyle. Outrageously, the police accused me of being on a bad acid trip and told me to stop harassing shoppers or they would arrest me.

The mark of a country in decline is one that considers God's defenders crazy, while letting the gay recruiters run rampant. The citizens of Canada should rise up and stage a revolt by declaring certain provinces under the control of Peter J. Akinola, the Anglican Archbishop of Nigeria. If conservative Episcopal churches in Virginia can defect, placing themselves under his authority, why not British Columbia?

Akinloa would do an amazing job running BC. He is a holy man with his priorities straighter than the straights he represents. For example, a day after Jesus Christ's birthday, up to 500 people were burned alive when fuel from a vandalized gasoline pipeline exploded near Lagos.

"This was a preventable tragedy," Joel Ogundere, a lawyer whose home was next to the blast, told the Indian Express. "It was poverty, ignorance and greed."

Thank God for Akinola, for he does not let charred bodies or institutionalized corruption stop him from his obsession with rooting out the great moral evil of homosexuality. We should consider flying Akinola to Canada, where he can get Canadians right with God.

We must act now before Vancouver hosts the Winter Olympics on 2010. My brothers, the church is the only thing standing between gaybobs in bobsleds and vogue dancing becoming an Olympic sport.

In the Lord's name,

Rev. Red Olsen
Missionary Man, ex-gay minister and exorcist

P.S. I will report next from Massachusetts, where we will work to make the state more like Alabama. Sure, the divorce rate in Massachusetts is one of the lowest in the nation, but it is only a matter of time before Boston becomes a mini-Canada. Please wire the funds so we can offer Barney Frank a free week at our ex-gay ministry boot camp.

90 Comments:

It doesnt sound like he is mad at the genuine God. What a stupid and ignorant statement to make. It sounds like you are a fool with a transparent agenda. Maybe Wayne simply thinks the God of the ex-gays and James Dobson is an asshole.

I know I certainly think the God of these creeps and phonies is a jerk. I'm a real Christian and loathe the fake God of the Christian Right.

Look, gay sex is natural and God celebrates it. God does not think a fucking clump of cells is better than a life, when it comes to stem cell research. And the right's pro-Iraq war God got thousands of people killed. Some "God" you freaks pray to.

So, just because Wayne has a problem with your fake political God, doesn't mean he has isues with the real God.

And Ex-Gays are a fucking farce. What a bunch of shallow, self-loathing suckers. They are modern day Uncle Toms. They are the weak fools who beleive the oppressor. Shame on those collaborating frauds.

Jerry A.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/03/2007 6:14 AM

"...gayer than a Colorado revival." I abosolutely love that!! Can't wait to use that lil nugget of comedy in casual conversation....
posted by Anonymous, at 1/03/2007 8:50 AM

Now Rev. Red, dont forget New Jersey, we're doing our part for the destruction of western civilization. If my boyfriend and I ever get married, we might even invite you.
Gary (NJ)
posted by Anonymous, at 1/03/2007 9:29 AM

Yes, anonymous fuck face, who is too much of a low-life coward, sissy, prick to state his real name.

But that is not surprising. So-called "ex-gays" are used to phoniness and lying, so remaining anonymous is just one more deception, I suppose. Lying comes so easily and naturally for ex-gays doesn't it? It is soon second nature, if your entire life is based on a fragile lie.

Anonymous, I have an issue with you. Who the fuck do you think you are to say that anyone has a problem with God. It certainly can't be inferred by the column. I read the same one as you did. People have a problem with fake Christians, such as you, not with Christ. Please don't confuse the two. You are not Christ-like.

Indeed, you are an arogant piece of monkey shit who knows nothing of God. You are a loser who claims to be ex-gay but trolls gay websites. Some life you have, pal. I certainly hope you don't have a poor wife. Imagine having an "ex-gay" limp-dick husband like you. What a waste of space on earth!!!!

On the totem pole of life, you are worse than a worm that resides in the infected anus. You are scum and a loser. Catch my drift. I am on to your game. You are self-loathing trash. And God uses you for comic relief.

Jerry A.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/03/2007 3:02 PM

Jerry, my question to Wayne was one meant in sincerity. I do not appreciate the abusive way you have written to me and would not think of saying those kinds of things to you. I am ex gay, I do support gay rights, I am a christian, and have a valid question for Wayne.

Why are you so angry? Are you angry at the "ex gay" who promote man/woman marriage only, dobson, and others like him? Surely you have displaced your anger towards me but it cannot be me personally that you are mad at.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/03/2007 3:15 PM

I don't think all ex gays are trying to achieve an ideal. There is no ideal. There are hopes and expectations that are most times unmet. Then there is reality. That changing from gay to ex gay does not make life easier. We all have problems, issues, day to day activites that need to be dealt with. And sexuality is just one part of a WHOLE person.

I do hope that by being here, other ex gays who read this blog and gays who participate in this blog begin to be more honest with themselves. Not saying gays need to change but that change is possible for some and you can't group everyone and all people into one block. And that ex gays begin to have some backbone and declare their own right to live outside of the right fundamentalist political world and be real christians.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/03/2007 11:03 PM

Because of the filth and hatred that has come my way here - you can sure bet it is out there - I WILL NOT expose who I am or my experiences (as those experiences can identify me) Sorry - but that is the world we live in - where some gay people think they can say and do anything they want to me. (Please see other hateful blogs) The hatred from the right fundamentalist christians and the gays is there on both sides. That is too bad. I will do my best to stand up and be counted for being ex gay, christian, not impose my religion on others and support the constitutional right of free people.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/03/2007 11:07 PM

Aren't we forgetting that "Holy Dispatch from Canada" is a joke? We gay people are known to have a good sense of humor versus the humorless right wing Christians. One of the best ways to counter the Xtians/ex-Xtians is to offer them a double tsunami of laughter in response to their idiotic opinions.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 10:53 AM

Anonymous,

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation that is determined in the womb during pregnancy. Homosexuals have different hormone and chemical levels in the region of the brain that determines sexual attraction.

In other words, it is biological.

People do not like ex-gays because they lie about changing their sexual orientation and the reasons for lying - to themselves and others.

You have not changed your sexual ortientation - anymore than a person born heterosexual can change theirs unless you have discovered a surgical procedure and drug treatment to change that part of your brain. Instead, you simply do not act on it. Not acting on it and pushing your sexuality under thr rug does not mean you have changed it.

Your dishonesty and weakness is what upsets people.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 12:30 PM

We can debate the fluidity of sexuality until scientist find the exact gene that creates sexual orientation. I know far too many people that have changed sexual preferences (not just sexual gender preferences) to believe that there are many, many levels of change where sexual orientation are concerned. You can head off in one direction and turn around - I did. What makes that happen?? A confluence of nature and nurture - in my opinion. Please be clear that I am stating my opinion. At least, this is the story for me and many, many others. It may not be the story for still many, many others.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 1:07 PM

Anonymous, your personal account elsewhere in Wayne's Blog was of an INVOLUNTARY change of sexual desire.

Those selling purported clinical methodologies, sometimes called "reparative therapy", suggest that sexual orientation or desire can be changed BY DELIBERATE EFFORT IN APPLYING SOME KIND OF CLINICAL METHODOLOGY.

By "many, many others", do you mean persons who have changed INVOLUNTARILY in sexual desire? Or are you referring to people whose desire has changed by "therapy"?

My belief after prolonged observation, searching and reading is that, far from there being "Many, many" of the latter, there are NONE.

That, in short, the entirety of "reparative therapy" is a scam.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 5:09 PM

Well, Phil, since most of your experience and (I'm sure social group) is made of gay people or people who have tried "therapy" and were not succesful in their goals, then of course your expeirence is going to be skewed. So is my experience going to be skewed - since my social group is made up of people who have changed been in "therapy" of some kind or another, and I don't have alot of contacts with gays anymore (as you can see - being ex gay is not accepted)

So we can argue all day long. The truth is no one knows for exact scientific certainty exactly wherein the mind or DNA sexual desire is found. Sooooo...... can we agree that some people change and some people don't AND it doesn't matter who you are?? If you lived a heterosexual life and now live a gay life, if you lived a gay life and now live a heterosexual life, if you are ex ex gay or ex straight or whatever - it doesn't matter - people still deserve the right to be who they are as long as it does not impede on or impose on another.

Why are you so interested in the methodology of change if you have no desire to change?? And my experience is different from many of my ex gay friends. I mean, life is different for all os us. You can't say all gays came out in the same way or discovered in their sexuality in the same way - can you??
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 5:37 PM

OK, so, plain questions just ain't gonna get answers. I've asked 'em enough times and I give up now.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 5:52 PM

Phil - I don't mean to be evasive - it just is that I was talking with friends last week and I am amazed at how different our stories are - where we come from, what we view as important, what compelled us to change etc... And our lives are very different.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 6:08 PM

I meant it - I'm finished. Thanks.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 7:20 PM

Phil, it is clear that Anonymous is a pathological liar who can't answer even the most direct questions. He/she offers unsubstantiated opinions, shallow attempts at science and comical personal testimony (Like we haven't heard ex-gay tales before, eg. Paulk, Johnston)

The bottom line is this Anonymous just isn't a person to be taken seriously. He/she/it brings nothing substantial to the debate. The person is a second-rate dilletante full of fluff. In other words, a clown.

Sammy in NYC
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 10:49 PM

Sammy, I am a person who does protect her well being. Exposing a story that could identify myself would be foolish in an environment that is obviously hostile. My reason for being here, at this blog, is to demonstrate to the gay and ex gays who read here, that not everyone who is an ex gay has to tow the "propoganda" about what it is like to be an ex gay, christian, and supportive of gay rights. I hope that in some way I can help build a bridge where true diversity exists and people live more peacefully and not in adversarial relationships.

Just becasue we are different does not mean I am a liar or filled with fluff. People who cannot accept the idea that yes there are gays out there who would rather get rid of me in not so pleasant terms, then I am going to protect myself. Sorry but your taunting does nothing more than perpetuate an old story - you know the one we used to play in school " If that's true then prove it!" Well, we are all grown up now and I simply have to make my own way in the world and that does not include being intimidated to "perform" a certain way to please gay society. But as a moral obligation it does mean stand up and be counted for supporting what I believe in. And I believe in equal rights for gay citizens.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/04/2007 11:45 PM

Thanks for this, your latest piece of satire, Wayne.
I'm glad you highlited the Nigerian archbishop's self-importance in putting us Canadians straight with his Dog.
"We don't have any homosexuals in Africa" he said. "We ate the last one last night" he added before realizing he had cum out as a modern-day cannibal ...

Do cum to Montréal which makes Vancouver look like a rebellious teenager in the area you described so well. Québécois of all stripes will eat Africa's Akinolas alive!

Yvon Thivierge
posted by Anonymous, at 1/05/2007 1:09 PM

Anonymous, stop playing the pathetic victim. It is really tiresome and unbecoming. You are not a victim, you are simply a yellow coward.

Marc Jacobs in Toronto
posted by Anonymous, at 1/05/2007 8:32 PM

No - I am not a coward. I have been verbally (excessively so) abused here and I understnad the displaced anger. But nonetheless, I am not going to tell too personal of a detail when lack of self control is being exhibit by some people. People, I might add, that I know nothing of except their vulgarness.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/05/2007 10:32 PM

I am curious,first of all, I'm gay, but been working out at gym and recently started taking testosterone pills to help build muscles, doing so has increased my sex drive but I'm starting to wonder if continuted use of testosterone pills could slowly turn me straight? I mean testosterone casues masculine features.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/06/2007 1:27 PM

That's a myth and I think you know it.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/06/2007 2:02 PM

Ok, well thats good to know, I thought it might be a myth but was'nt sure.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/06/2007 2:09 PM

Success is defined by the individual in therapy. If they want to be straight and remain gay then they did not have success in their own eyes.

I cannot define success for anyother person except myself. And I am sure you are the same way.

Success to me is satisfaction.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/06/2007 3:33 PM

First of all, I don't hang out with people associated with the industry.

Second - Success is an idividual definition - different for each person - I was using someone else's terminology for themselves.

Third, whenever I get the chance to show the hypocrisy of the ex gay movement - I do. I have been very expressive of my displeasure with some of their ides and tactics - to them - in their face.

Last, I abhor the idea that people are not free - in other people's minds.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/06/2007 5:25 PM

Um, my friends, whom I know are also very sweet. And they are not part of the industry. And there are lots people that are not.

So,sorry. I will continue to stand up for the very existence of others - ex gay, gay, straight or whatever you so deem yourself - unless of course you arev iolent towards others.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/06/2007 8:50 PM

Regan, the fight has stop. Gays and religious rights people. And ex gays need to either step up or stand down if they are beuing used (places like Exodus get a good portion of their money donated to them and so the president or front man of that organization has to pretty much say what they want) It's just another way of prostituting for money - although I am sure right now he really believes against gay marriages (maybe someday he will see things differently) But anyhow, if I stand up maybe that will give others the courage to stand up. Remember how Rosa Parks started things?? Or Stonewall being a very small group. Well, I may be one voice and pray that other voices join mine in the future.

It has to start somewhere, don't you think. Your comment about telling me to move along was sweet - but I can only hear the white men now telling Rosa Parks not to start something and wouldn't she be better off just moving to the back so as not to start a problem???
posted by Anonymous, at 1/06/2007 9:46 PM

I'm standing on your side! No - no one should have to change their sexuality - at all!!! And I will invoke the name of Rosa Parks to stand up for gay rights!

I am not a walking contradiction - you are blinded to the idea that I changed and think that if you want to - go ahead - if you don't then don't. Simple. Everyone has a right to do with their body and mind what they want to. I am stepping away from the old rheteric (sp?) that if you are ex gay then you are anti gay!! I am supporting the civil rights of people - all people whter or not it is biological.

To stand against the ex gay ideology as I am doing has created as much havoc in my own personal life as one can say - believe this - I have been thrown out of ex gay venues for my beliefs and I am ex gay!!!
posted by Anonymous, at 1/07/2007 12:56 PM

You know Regan, you make me feel like the malato individual, belonging to both sides but belonging niether to both. Are you saying I should segregate myself from your kind???
posted by Anonymous, at 1/07/2007 12:59 PM

Anonymous claims to have been thrown out of places. What a liar. The dude won't give his name because he knows that it will be shown that he got thrown out of nowhere. How tired is this martyr/victim routine?

Anon....you are a big phony loser. And, after reading your posts, I think you are mentally "off". Please seek some help as soon as you can. Get off the Internet and seek a good team of psychatrists.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/07/2007 4:11 PM

I withstand alot of negative comments. Remember, I was and still am a gay activist. I stood there while the fundies, spit and yelled horrible things at us. I went to political debates. I marched in the parades. I doubt you have ever done so much for the cause as I have. My cause- equal rights.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/07/2007 5:46 PM

Why Reagan, do I not have the right to change my sexuality if I want to? Hmmm? Does equal rights mean only some people. I am sorry that you refuse to see that some people do not buy into the poilitcal manuevers of the right on this issue. I am just a person - like you. You are allowed to be who you are. Is the same not true for me?

What makes me think I am straight - um does not having an attraction to my own gender count??

You seem to insist that I have been brainwashed. That's funny - if I pick up your line of thinking then certainly I will have been brainwashed. I am just a woman, who knows the battle of being gay with the rights issues in this country, and a woman who will and still supports the freedom of individuals.

Why is that a gay can go to a gay affirming therpaist if they have trouble being gay but a woman who has been fully accepted by her friends and family who wants a better answer for herself is not aloow to question her sexuality??

Sounds kind of like a double standard to me. But you know you are black and a woman and straight and so get to make the rules for me??

I don't think so. I am who Iam. You may not like it - but someday it is my hope that people will let gays marry and the gays will be a little more friendly towards ex gays who support their cause.

I know - it is asking alot.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/07/2007 9:18 PM

Regan? I have a question for you? How do you know you are straight? How do you know how black you really are? And have you ever had your DNA tested to check you gender?? Just a question.

Do you see how ridiculous some of the questions you ask are?

Oh, and why do you go to this site? Is it for some hidden meaning or agenda?? Or should I take you on your word because you area straight, black, woman??
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 12:49 AM

Gay people are expected to change by a few people (no doubt with a lot of money) I don't expect them to change. But if they want to - then go ahead and try.

And that you do not understnad about being ex - gay is about as reasonable as my understand what it is like to be a man. It is not of my experience and I do not know. Same as you - it is not of your experience and you do not understand.

You are not fully black (unless you are straight from Africa) and evryone has the ability to be aroused sexually by their own gender given the right circumstances. And you know full well this is true.

I only asked you because you asked me the question about knowing one's own sexuality. For you it was something that was there for a long time for me it has changed over time.

I used to love root beer and pancakes. Today, I cannot fathom eating those things. Why does my change threaten you?? Because you are afriad of what the right does with it. Me too! That's why I am here.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 12:09 PM

The megalomaniac Nigerian archbishop and his homophobic collegues will shun the U.S.'s Episcopal Primatial bishop at the Tanzanian summit because she is a woman.
So these savages are not only antigay but also deeply mysogynic.
I wonder what Jesus would do to them.
He never refused to sit at the same table as other people because of their sex or sexual orientation.
I say those man-eating African niggers are simply unfit to be priests, let alone bishops and archbishops.
Cannibalism should not be a Church value in the Anglican communion.

Yvon Thivierge Ottawa
posted by Unknown, at 1/08/2007 1:37 PM

Regan, you have ingaged me with attacks and insults. I have defended myself. That is NOT looking for validation. I have the validation of self. YOU are looking for something from me and I keep trying to satisfy you. You just DO NOT WANT to hear what comes from my soul - only souls that are like yours.

Anyhow- I think I understand the gay fight a little bit better than you.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 1:43 PM

After reading the most recent response to Regan from Anonymous, I feel that it is important that I respond.

I know Regan personally, and I believe that she knows more about this fight than almost anyone I've met. And I believe I have some authority in saying that, as a person who is a gay, white male.

The implication that she knows nothing of the fight is made without knowledge or basis of comparison. I have worked with her personally on projects related directly to this issue, including the Ex-Gay Ministries and their barbaric practices toward individuals with "deviant sexual preferences."

It seems that you are a proponent of the Kinsey scale, judging by your assertion that "everyone" feels some attraction to the same sex. Please remember that there are still those in the extreme minority who do not, and also that it suggests that you are never "ex-gay," but instead only act on the part of your sexual preference for the opposite sex.

If you truly do have the desire to improve the image of people in the sexual minority of the world, please begin within the organizations that practice the therapy that you claim has worked for you, as well as those religious organizations that preach against same-sex attraction and love.

The fact is, by identifying yourself as an ex-gay, you have identified yourself with a community that does not welcome people who are gay, and works actively against gay people. As I see it, your options here are as follows:

You may either work from your end as a newly-straight Christian individual to work with the religious and anti-gay organizations to make them more friendly, with the hope that it will occur and bridge the growing rift between "God" and gay people.

You may choose to identify yourself not as "ex-gay." If you are or are not gay now is not something anyone cares about. If you wish to identify your orientation, and you are attracted exclusively to the opposite sex, then simply say you are straight. That is far less of a slap in the face than identifying as "ex-gay."

Thank you for your time, patience, and understanding in this matter. I wish you luck in changing the perceptions of the world from your position. I don't envy it, and I'm glad I'd never choose to live as "ex-gay."
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 2:19 PM

Regan, I am sorry you think thaat my life is a detriment to the gay rights battle. How dare you?
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 3:00 PM

Mathias,
I do work on communicating with the relgious right on this subject. I am met with the same disregard as I am met with in this blog.

But if I keep trying, perhaps someday people will respect others for being alive rather than for whatever they happen to be.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 3:02 PM

BTW, Mathias, Exodus will not publish anything I write or try to contribute to their blog. I guess it is too threatening to them as well.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 3:02 PM

Anonymous,

Have you considered trying what I recommended by identifying as "straight" instead of "ex-gay"? I would bet it would meet with a lot less hostility on both fronts.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 3:27 PM

By saying I am only straight, isn't that denying or witholding an important part of life? Just because gays don't like it - ex gays are here.

Regan, don't mean to be crude here - but if you closed your eyes and engaged in cunninglingus (as the reciever) I doubt it would matter who was doing that (well, as long as they knew what they were doing). So that is what was meant by that statement.

Defensive, you keep asking me to re name myself. I find gays very defensive and hostile against me. I have continually stood my ground. And yes defended my right to be me. Just like gays and blacks do.

I keep saying that ex gays exist and though YOU may see us as a threat there are some of us who are not.

I'm sure some of the folks in Mississippi were a little set off by the white folks coming down to help out, too. Hmmm, and then there were the black activists who were just as racist as the whites. Sounds like the same thing here.

You want me to change my identity for your preference. Go ahead and hate me - in years to come, you may see that someone is trying to reach out without sacrificing her sense of self either.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 4:45 PM

Anonymous,

It is not something I care about if you change your chosen adjective for identity. Just be aware that your choices do have repercussions.

By the way, if "ex-gay" is different than "straight", please explain why. Specifically, what does this mean in your current sexuality? That you are gay only on days that begin with the letter 'x'?

The reason I recommend identifying as straight is because that is what you ARE. Identifying as "ex-gay" is identifying what you WERE, a fact that is not relevant to the current.

As it has been said many times, remember the past, but don't live in it. You're here, you're straight, get used to it.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 4:47 PM

I would point out also, Anonymous, that it would be similar to calling myself "ex-straight."

Yes, I used to date women, I was attracted to them and sexually involved with more than one. Many gay men have been. The fact is, it is the past. We ARE not straight, we ARE gay. You ARE not gay, you ARE straight.

I don't believe you'd be witholding any important part of your life, because it's not a part of your life any more. You are not gay now.

I could call myself "ex-blonde", or "ex-full-time-employee". None of that is relevent to my life now, or this issue.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 4:57 PM

You may call yourself ex straight if you would like to. That is fine with me.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 5:18 PM

Being known as ex gay is important to this issue - that yes some gays can change. And yes, gays deserve equal rights. And not all ex gays are brainwashed fanatics who are anti gay.

Mathias, it's not like I go around to the store and work and what not and make declarations. Actually, I truly believe that sexuality is a private and no ones business - since we all have a varied story of our sexuality. And I think it is horrible that the ex gay industry is using people to meet their own political ends. Not right at all. I hope more ex gays step forward and protect our constitutional right to freedom and equal rights. That's why it is important in these kinds of forums to announce that I am ex gay.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 5:23 PM

Anon,

I will say that I do not see how it is relevent to this issue. The fact that someone MAY be able to change does not have any bearing on whether or not someone deserves equal rights.

Honestly, orientation of any kind is not relevent. People are people. As we are apparently demonstrating here, sexuality, real or perceived, does not constitute a person's political beliefs. We currently have a straight person, a gay person, and an ex-gay/now-straight person all claiming to support equal rights.

Maybe the labels need to end. However, any one of us who chooses to identify ourselves with a label is bound to the consequences that can occur by that label, and should expect nothing different.

The fact is, until the ministries that preach 'ex-gay' therapy change, that label will associate you with an anti-gay agenda.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 6:32 PM

Well, it does make a difference in that the ex gay religious right is using ex gays as an example that gays do not "NEED" exceptions for marriage rights since they can "change". Well, I don't believe that. And I am an ex gay who says "NOT SO!" Not all gays can or want to change. It is their life to do with as they please - and damnit they deserve the right to marry an individual of their own gender - and hec - I deserve that right, too!!

That is why it is important to identify oneself in a certain way. I know it bugs people, I know it may take a while for some to trust that people like me actually exist. Life is funny after all and truth is stranger than fiction. And we all deserve a place in the sun.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 6:42 PM

But you Regan no matter what you say are overlooking a very simple fact - I am unlike you, I am unlike gays and I support civil rights for all. So what if I had changed my stripes in some way - who cares.

Making it about me - since you have attack me - then I will talk about. YOU keep talking about ME in some way so I will respond about me.

So you have a narrow mind - what am I do to with it. I can't enlarge it. I can only say what I have said. I'm ex gay, we do exist, we do support gay rights/civil rights.

You FEEL that I am not for real - but you do not know that for sure. So why don't you give me a chance to be just a regular person who fights the good fight. I am not disqualified from being a freedom fighter just becasue I changed. I am not asking anyone to live my life - save they learn to accept others without moral judgment.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 7:22 PM

No the roots of change are not in hatefulness of being gay. I personally am not into self loathing - though I see a lot of gays doing it. For some it may be.

Talk about low rent?? Puuullleeeze. You have walked in the territory enough times yourself.

Wayne denies that ex gay people exist so I do not agree with him

And I have been to ex gay watch. I think what some of the religious right does is outrageous if not criminal.

You know- you are in denial. You want a world that exists only the way you say it does. Unfortunately, you may have some blind spots, too.

And yes homosexuals are just people - nothing more, nothing less. And being a person does not make you less important. It makes you human.

Really this issue is not about homosexuality - it is about discrimination, predjudice, hate, mistreatment, coercion, dictatorship and the list goes on. And it is about power over another group. A really good book to read is Thy Kingdom Come by Randall Balmer.

It was fantastic - maybe you'll understand me better after reading that or at the very least browsing it.

You know - you will never know the depth of my concern. You sound like a great person but you can't accept that I do see somethings different from you and yet, I support freedom.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/08/2007 8:30 PM

Regan, I did not quote the old christian rhetoric that you posted. So those are words that you decided I was thinking. You are probably very angry and making assumptions based on your other experiences with christians. Also, that you took my statment out of context - please finish the statment next time if you want to quote me. It is not about hate - it is about (please go back and read the post)

As far as telling of my process of change - since I am not here to "convert" anyone - I do not see how it is releveant to anyone. In addition to the fact that I have heard as varied an experience in changing as there are flavors of ice cream. It always looks a little different from the next person. My motives were for me and no one else. It did not change my believe system. I just changed my perspective on my sexuality - what bother's you so much about that?? I really do not understand that. It's the same as thr right being bothered by homosexuality. So two wrongs do not make a right (no pun intended)

As far as the nasty goes - girl - "you gots t'look in yo own mirra" You don't like me pointing out to you that you too have blind spots, areas of assumptions based on past experiences, lacking knowledge etc... We all have that. Me and you and everyone involved in this.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/09/2007 9:40 PM

Anonymous,

If you are the same anon from the very beginning of the discussion, I can't but admire your patience and willingness to take crap. Really. Some of the comments here are way out of line. Don't let em drag you down to their level though, come on. You were doing so well.

For what it's worth (probably very little) I don't think your attitude/approach is damaging to the gay rights movement. Calling yourself 'ex-gay' does not in and of itself mean you oppose gay rights. But it does undercut the assumption that sexual orientation is immutable. Much of the gay rights advocates' strategy has been built on that assumption, so in that respect, Regan and others have reason to worry.

As an aside, I don't think these strategies need to be built on that assumption, and I also don't think it's The Immutable Truth. Life is weird and wonderful, sexuality even more so. Who's to say what can and can't happen? Even if I would say: ex-gay therapy doesn't work, that doesn't mean I can say: no one's sexuality has ever changed at all. I don't know that.

I do agree with other commentators that your particular story of change is relevant. Not because you're trying to tell anyone: 'you can do this too', but because telling your story in full, rather than simply carrying a label, can further understanding.

I think it would be helpful to your cause (as I understand it: recognition that ex-gays exist, and protest *from* ex-gays against the ex-gay industry's oppressive political agenda) if you told people on any side who you are and where you're coming from.

That doesn't mean you have to give them your name and address, I understand completely if you don't want to. But you could set up a simple website or blog (or MySpace for all I care) giving yourself a onscreen name and explaining where you're coming from, what you believe and what you strive for. If you comment on any forum or blog like this, you can then use that handle and point people to your story, if they are interested.

I think it would help keep discussions from getting quite so nasty and repetitive if you had a kind of FAQ site to point people to. It could include things like "I'm female". You know, even just a few really basic points could be very helpful.

I'm not here to tell you what to do, I just really think that would help you get your message across more powerfully and build more trust and understanding (and hence the power to actually change people's minds, rather than the power to merely annoy them.) ;)

As for me, I'm Willie Hewes, I'm a girl who draws comics. The only real way I'm at all involved with the gay or ex-gay movements is through a mini-comic I drew about a teenager who's sent to an ex-gay program. You can read it here: http://66.197.210.102/~witchcra/freez/freezindex.html
posted by Willie Hewes, at 1/10/2007 9:09 AM

Willie, I've enjoyed your cogent website, and wistful, powerful "eg-gay" comic. Thank you.

Apropos very little at all, here (Scotland) Willie is only ever a male name, but Billie is sometimes a girl.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/10/2007 12:53 PM

Scolding me??? You got that right. You are not in control of my writing and I deliberately chose not to address some issues. They are not pertinent to the discussion that ex gays do exist and they don't all hate homosexuals and some even support gay rights.

It will always stay on the surface with you - you are not allowed into my private, private world. But I will say who I am and make a stand. I need not prove that I am who I am.

I just tried to get you to a t the very least recognize that not all ex gays are the way you think they are.

I do not need to tell you anything of my journey other than here I am. BTW, I have never been to any one of those camps or programs homes or whatever those cult classics are.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/10/2007 4:14 PM

Regan, I will not reveal anything that lead to my doorstep. You have read the foul blogs posted here. I would not do that to myself.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/10/2007 4:25 PM

But again, I must maintain. If you did not refer to yourself as ex-gay, you would not be met with such hostility. And as Steven said earlier and I've said on numerous occasions. If you are straight, you are straight, not ex anything. It doesn't matter what you were, it's what you are. I don't call a tranny an ex male or ex female. They are what they are. You are what you are. You are not what you were.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/10/2007 8:18 PM

But you call 'em a tranny refering their past??

As I said, I do not refer to myself as ex gay in the general public - but in this forum I do for the purpose of introducing the idea that not all ex gays are anti-gay nor do we all campaign against gay rights and marriages. In addition, I support gay rights and marriages.

I know the hostility is there. I accept that. In time, this may change. As well, I hope ex gays get off their high horse of judgment and begin to support the constituion of the country they live in.

With every new idea, comes hostile confrontation. I guess that is just human nature.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/11/2007 10:12 AM

That's ccalled intimidation. I don't buy that form of concession.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/11/2007 2:05 PM

"But you call 'em a tranny refering their past??"

Correction, they call themselves transexual and the relevence is that they are a group of people who face discrimination and violence on a daily basis, moreso than any gay man or woman. Calling yourself "ex-gay" does nothing short of raising temperatures and tempers and making you the object of suspician. I challange you to go to another gay blog or website or chatroom and introduce yourself. Do not refer to yourself as ex gay, but instead let them know in subtle terms that your orientation has infact changed. Some may still be hostile, but I would bet my hands that if you didn't use the term, most people wouldn't get as angry with you.

Furthermore, as I've stated on a number of occasions, Wayne and activists like him have nothing against individuals who may have altered. It is the institution. It is the whole ex-gay movement that is in question. When you refer to yourself with that terminology, you become one of them, whether you are or not. Just as the second I say I am gay, misinformed straight folks think I am a flaming queer who dances naked at pride parades and sleeps with everything in pants, provided they are male, and farm animals.

That is why the gay community strives to educate the general public on exactly who we are, and that we are unchangable, but the only difference sex and how we do it.

Have you ever read Don Quiote? I sometimes feel like you are fighting windmills on Wayne's blog and you are never going to win the fight. If in life you are trying to explain something to someone, and they do not understand, or cannot comprehend, the best plan is to stop and try it again in another way; in other words. Ex-gay has gotten you no where. And I fear it never will. Try it again; in other words.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/11/2007 8:40 PM

Well if you are not a flaming queer and I am not a hateful person, then I guess you know how I feel. Sorry - just as transexuals use the term to define themselves, I am going ex gay to define a different kind of ex gay person.

Oh - I remember when calling someone a dyke was cruel then we womyn took it back and now it is a word of strength and pride.

The hostility doesn't bother me as much as the overwhelming relcutance to give it up. And from a group that calls itself socially tolerant and open minded.

It's as if people enjoy hating someone. Oh and let's not forget to not use the n word??? I think it is a pretty negative term but hey some use it.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/12/2007 6:50 PM

That's all fine and dandy, and as I've said, I really don't care what you call yourself. That's up to you. But I'm not going to go out of my way to use a term that offends 99 per cent of the people posting on a certain blog. It just seems to me that you are pushing the envelope, demanding that people should not be offended by the term, and through it all, you are furthering hosilities, not stopping them. That's all I'm saying. You've even got Regan pissed off. So maybe a gay person is greatly offended by the term "ex-gay" and we could say that that gay person is over sensitive. Regan is a straight woman, and she's offended by the terminology. Shouldn't this tell you something? I'm not trying to judge. I'm trying to understand. It just makes no sense to me.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/12/2007 11:21 PM

There is an agenda. I just haven't figured it out. Whether she's Captain Ahab, Don Quiote, or something more sinister, I don't know. But it doesn't matter. I'm throwing up my hands. My anonymous friend cannot or will not listen to reason. After this blog post she won't be around anyway and this is probably best for her as well. This obsession cannot be healthy. Perhaps the best thing she can do is open her own blogsite, where she can invite all people who identify as ex-gay and still stand up for gay rights and hate the christian coaltion can go. I just think she might be alone there.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/13/2007 4:59 PM

Of course I am pushing the envelope. And so what if the term offends 99% of the people. I don't want to - but then it is their choice to be offended - after all I have said. I am only choosing to be recognized as a person who is ex gay and is not anti gay.

Somehow, the rules that work for gays and other minorities to call themselves what they want to (and offend others) is not acceptable for all people to do.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/13/2007 6:04 PM

It's a matter of why people take offense to the terminology. People are offended by people being gay, because they are misinformed about homosexuality in general. People are offended by the term ex-gay because the ex-gay establishment is what is keeping us from attaining equal rights. There is a huge difference. But as I said, I'm throwing my hands up. I can't dialogue with you on this issue any longer because you don't get it. You as an individual are not the issue. You never have been.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/13/2007 6:55 PM

Well, offended you may be - but you can choose to see that not all ex gays are alike. I guess that's the same thing you are saying JH - were are people - not to be all lumped in with the worst of them - even if the worst of them happens to be in the forefront of the media. And again - I am supporting gay rights. Another reason it is important to stand out as an ex gay. Otherwise - should we have this conversaton in the future over coffee and we never had this dialogue here - you might spit on me. ( just a bad joke from the days when I stood in between the fundies and the parade participants)
posted by Anonymous, at 1/13/2007 8:14 PM

Regan, I keep repeating myself so that you get the point. It keeps being overlooked. You want to bring ancillary issues (which I am not responding to at the present). I am staying focused on one item. One item only - that you refute that people like myself exist. So I repeat the statment, over and over again. Once that idea takes hold - then maybe we can move on to something else. It is important, just as in the days when gays stood up and said we're queer, we're here. Minority people cannot be overlooked. Well - you may choose to overlook if you want - and that's the same trap you accuse other of towards African Americans.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/14/2007 11:43 AM

BTW, I never went to an Exodus, Love Won Out, or wahtever without some political statement being made. I think they should be stopped if they entangle their spirtuality with politics. NO matter if they are a 503 b or 503 c
posted by Anonymous, at 1/14/2007 2:03 PM

No sistah. I don't get the feeling that you get me either. And of course I don't register on your meter, you need to create something that can even recognize this simple idea. There is nothing to prove, nothing to demonstrate - save this blog has been a learning experience of the intolerance and intimidation of gay activists (on the whole).
posted by Anonymous, at 1/14/2007 3:10 PM

Oh trust me Regan, I am out of my comfort zone. And I continue to push on those who are comfortable being anti- gay. You may not want to church. That's fine but for people who do it is as significant an event as you going to an activist meeting. When are you going to realize that not everyone performs a goal in the same way you would have them do so??

You have continually proded and poked and pushed and imposed your idea of what I should be doing. I don't know your agenda if there is one - often thinking to myself that you will try anything to get me to reveal more about myself. In any event, my agenda is very simple, to make a statement - the one you call blah blah blah - but one that can be very important to civili rights and that is an ex gay can support gay rights and mariiages without sharing similar views on relgious or personal choices. I fully support other people to be free to choose what life they want - even if they didn't live the way I want them too - like you wanting me to act in a specific way for your comfort level.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/14/2007 11:51 PM

Regan, you have a lot to learn about teaching others, learning and social transition.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/14/2007 11:55 PM

Let me add to that - those who went to the synagogue, mosque, temple, church, found and continue to find significance in that event.

While you are doing research papers and calling people I am running a business, helping my family adjust to new situations, sharing time with an old woman, and helping my mother this week end. Now if that is not activism in action - tell me what is?
posted by Anonymous, at 1/15/2007 12:11 AM

That you did not figure out that I would not give you information is not teasing - as I stated several times that I would not.

I'm glad you asked but you did not like the answer.

You seem mostly angry and frustrated with the idea that I am not like most people who roll over and engage in the argument that you seem to want.

By maintaining my peace - you only became more and more determined to agitate me into a response that woul reveal more of myself than what I told I would not do.

It was not teasing in any form but plain honesty and sticking to my rules that I have set for myself that you do not like.

Sorry, Regan but you have insulated me by saying that my very life was not contributing. That's a pretty heafty statment about any person on this earth.

Now, go on and get back to your envelopes and phone calls. For whatever it is worth, no matter what, it is your life and it is a good life.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/15/2007 9:11 PM

Unflattering conclusions is a euphemism for some of the things you have said. Why is it that people draw conclusions of the worst sort before the best???

I don't know about you, but you sound like a judgemental person. You had evry opportunity to respond in a better way. That Regan, has been your choice to show your true colors - just like every other discriminating person.

Just a thought - that maybe you are very similar to the very people you protest against. It is human nature to fear and to hate those we have wronged. It isn't right, but we all do and must continue everyday to overcome our own predjudices.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/15/2007 9:20 PM

Regan, I don't want to devote all of my time to ex gay and gay issues. I have other important (more pressing items on my agenda) like helping the poor.

That I also put on my list that I am going to be a voice as an ex gay and speak out against anti gay rhetoric by the christian right does not mean that I have to devote most of my time to the issue.

Now - you have equated my lack of actions that you think I should take with my thoughts?? Where do you get these ideas???

Do you think the poor are more in need of my time than gays are?? I do.

You make such leaps of judgment that I can hardly believe it coming from an activist.

I know you are VERY passionate about this issue. So go do what you do - I will do what I do. It doesn't mean I am any less sincere - it does mean that there is a bigger picture from my view about who needs what help.

Blogs, meetings, letters, stand ins, sit downs, pickets, face to face confrontations etc.... It takes alot of work.

Don't I know it.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/16/2007 4:50 PM

I only remark that you attack and do not listen.

I don't turn your words against you, I point out how your words demonstrate an attitude.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/16/2007 4:51 PM

The predjudice comes when you jump to conclusions - that's your action - not mine.

I am not asking for your help BTW - just a little understanding - that no, I will not reveal more about myself. Just accept that fact that ex gays exist and not all of us are anti gay. That's it.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/16/2007 4:54 PM

But you have made alot of assumptions about me and judgmental statements. I did not make you say those things - you did that all on your own.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/16/2007 6:08 PM

Well, Regan I support a person to either go to a gay affirming group or therapist or cult just as I support a person to go to a "reparative" (for lack of a better word) therapist, group or cult. And I support parents who want to raise their children with their values. It may not be what I like - but I support personal choices and freedoms. We all become adults one day and must break free of our parents stronghold and begin to live our own lives. (That is in the christian bible)

As for your friend, I wish him/her the best of luck. I know I have run into ALOT of controversy when meeting with some of these religious zealots. They do not allow personal choices. (Even God offers himself and does not impose himself on us)

I do know of a female therapist who works with women who is very kind and smart, (yes christian and conservative) but admits that the clients choice is above all else - theirs. In the past she was not as understanding. If the client wants to work on changing, she is there to help. If the client does not want to work on changing then they work on what the presenting issues are. I believe that she is sincere - but of course no one knows the heart as well as the sure observer - (reference to God)

I do not doubt that you are smart. But being smart does not mean we will come the same personal choices or conclusions about our own lives. Or how to respond to crisis in this world. And this world is indeed in need of help.

Again, good luck to your friend. And he/she too must make their way, just like you and I do.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/17/2007 1:01 PM

I will read your post later - having work issue. BTW, Alan Chambers is under the cone of deciept - I know that. He does not know that, yet.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/17/2007 6:04 PM

Tell me about it!! The whole Hate Speech thing. All a pstor has to do after he stated his view that homosexuality is wrong is say"This does not mean that we should treat those who engage in that lifestyle with anything less than love, kindness and grace" That would protect anyone from breaking the hate speech law!!

Honestly, I got into a huge argument with my shrink over this - a session that I refused to pay for since she brought her own bias and political agenda into my private session. After awhile she conceded that I was right and that she had not reviewed the documentation and verified the stories and how they were being reported. And then I got a lecture on how I should get out there and speak at churches.

Well, she gets out there a little more than I do.

Many, many citizens are ill informed of exactly what the bill states. It talks about using inciteful language- such as you can be criminallly prosecuted for yelling fire in a crowded theatre (when there is no fire) and someone is injured because of said action.

Of course, we have the right of free speech but not when is causes injury to others.

I doubt that people like Alan Chambers who was never really out as a gay man and never really experienced the hateful actions of others, really truly understands what gay people go through on a daily basis. Hec, I can go out and by some people's standard appear lesbian (I suppose when wearing my leather jacket LOL) and be attacked or threatened for DOING NOTHING!!

I support free speech but not when it directly causes or incites an action of violence against innocent people.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/17/2007 7:21 PM

In regards to AC, he is probably a nice guy and sincere but very niave (sp?). I feel sorry for him because he makes statments that sound sooooo canned and he is probably vulnerable to the machine because of his income. I'm not sure but he does not seem to have a grasp on what it means to be gay and live as a gay person. He may know what it is like to have homosexual feelings and thoughts but not the life. And many of those who come into his sphere of knowledge are coming with the same guilt filled back ground and christian culture for their upbringing. Thus his experience of gay (thought, philosphy, life, actions, etc...) is very much skewed.

He's probably a nice guy but with little experience of the hatred out there and no understanding of the fight for one's own life.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/17/2007 7:43 PM

Afterthought, in comparison, to hear some of these people like AC speaking is sort of like listening to the parent who keeps telling their child that Switzerland was neutral.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/17/2007 7:46 PM

AND.... if he wants to help homosexuals "be free" then that should be his focus not politics. this is not a christian country - it is a country of free choice to choose your religion. Gays are not breaking down the family ( 51% of women are in single households without a spouse) Please see divorce and the christian answer - NONE!!!
posted by Anonymous, at 1/17/2007 7:53 PM

So right, Regan. All the people that Exodus and their ilk hold up as success models are people who were never happy to begin with, gay or not. Guys who were prostitutes, drug addicts, sex addicts. These are not indicative of the gay male population. My friends and I stayed away from such people. Not judgemental, mind you, just because we didn't want to get mixed up in it. The Christian right holds these folks up as the norm. Ladies and Gentlemen, I am the norm. I'm in a nine year relationship and raising three kids, totally monogamous; never a drug addict, never a prostitute. My friend Tom is the norm; single man, looking for Mr. Right; occasional one night stand, but all in all comfortable in his skin. My uncle is the norm; 35 years with the same man. My friend John is the norm. Broke up with his boyfriend 8 months ago. Not interested in another relationship.

People who are so down on the gay community need to see that we are all normal. As normal as our heterosexual counterparts. I tell straight people all the time; the only thing that makes me different from you is what we do in the bedroom, and that is none of your business.

Regan, you really should start your own blog. I know you've been told this before. But you have so much to say and such a great way of saying it. Take care.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/18/2007 5:24 PM

You know, some of us were blessed with great parents. Some kids have it rough - I just can't imagine living in a restictive home that would have disowned me for being gay. My parents were great in that regard. And yes, JH you are the norm. You have a normal life with kids, hopes, dreams, etc.... Why people want to ruin that - I just don't it.
posted by Anonymous, at 1/18/2007 9:11 PM

yes, I have three beautiful daughters. Two I raised since they were babies. The third came to us a year ago when she was 15. She's been the most difficult, but mostly because of the life she's had up until now. But I won't go into all that. The thing is that Scott and I are both her parents. It takes more than a bloodline to make a parent. And I have taught them all how to fix a car, basic plumbing and electrical work, and...well, anything that needs to be done. I think it is imperative for a woman to not be dependent upon a man. I think it is imperative for a woman to know at least half as much as the garage mechanic she takes her car to to be serviced. Dobson and his ilk would have women barefoot and pregnant and gay men under the closet. Yes, I can sew and I'm quite the cook. I can also take the engine of my old van apart and put it back together.

My parents raised us all without gender roles. My brother, who is straight, played with dolls just like I did. My sister, who is straight, enjoyed trucks and farming toys. My favorite toys were always anything I could find outside. An oak leaf could make an excellent bed for a pine cone person.

Over the past...well, since just before the 2004 election, I found myself extremely pissed off at the very notion of morals in this country. The "Moral Voters" in 2004 were so focused on gay marriage and abortion rights. I'm sick and tired of being the religious right's poster boy for immorality. So what if the person who shares my bed is another man. He's also the person who shares my life, but they cannot grasp that. They would prefer to see us confined to dark corners of sex clubs, so they can feel better about their own lives.

To me, immorality is children having to go bed hungry. To me, immorality is kids losing both of their parents to AIDS, because mom and dad didn't get the education they needed. TO me, immorality is a 15 year old getting shot dead in the street because the only way he thinks he can make a living is by selling drugs. I wonder how many of those "moral Voters" have ever taken the time to visit a homeless shelter, or a children's hospital on Christmas Eve. My partner and his band and I have a Christmas eve tradition. We go to the local Childrens ward of the hospital, where the band plays for the kids and I play Santa. I'm a fairly skinny santa, but they don't seem to notice. And they love the songs, and they sing along. And for a moment, they are just kids; not sick kids.

So I gotta ask myself. Exactly what is their definition of moral. Ordinarily, in such cases, I would offer to agree to disagree. But when people are dying because they can't open their fat wallets for anything other than trying to deny gay people rights and women rights and minorities rights. IT's just wrong. It's for this point that we need to stand. Some people do not agree with Waynes tactics, but it is usually persons who disagree with his stand. Others don't understand the way of the activist.

MLK didn't just stand for the rights of the Black man. He stood for the rights of all human beings, under the skin. Queer people included. Ghandi didn't just stand for the rights of the men of India. He stood for the rights of all human beings. I like to consider myself in that fold. Jesus didn't just stand for the rights of Jews or even the people who followed him. He was for every man, woman, and child. And whether you believe that he was the Messiah, or a madman, or just a preacher/teacher, his words are words to live by. "Love thy Neighbor" "Judge not, lest ye be Judged" "Let him among us who is without sin cast the first stone."

On a lighter note, best of luck on your plays, Regan. I am, myself, working on a novel. It's semi-autobiographical. I'm calling it fiction. I've finished the rough draft and am now into the re-write, which I hate. If I ever end up at a book signing near you, please stop by. We could have coffee or something.

Sorry for the soap box, all.

Take care,
Darren
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/20/2007 12:08 AM

LOL, I know. I've never known a writer that wasn't a schitzophrenic at heart. "I hear Voices."

"Tell them to shut up."

"I can't, their telling me a really good story."

There's a fine line between creativity and lunacy.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/20/2007 12:35 PM

Well, the funny thing is, I've always believed that writers keep themselves sane by writing. I wonder, if Stephen King didn't have such an outlet for his imagination, would he be in a rubber room sucking his thumb?

I was raised in a hippie communal house on the Eastern Shore. My life was far from normal. Now, inside the house and on the grounds things were fine. The kids I grew up with were exactly like me. But out in the world, things were downright scarey. And when I got older and had to add being gay to my list of things lacking of normalcy I don't know what I would do, if I couldn't put it to paper. In my fiction, I didn't have to be "Darren the Homo hippie." I could be "Darren the rock Star", or "Darren the world Traveler."

It wasn't until I got older that I began to appreciate my life as it was; and is. When I got into college, kids who didn't care for my sexuality really latched on to the whole hippie thing and for the first time in my life, I had a strange surge in popularity. So from there, I was able to get back to my roots and actually become "Darren the homo hippie" and like it.

Anne Rice once said that she has an on-going narrative in her head and her greatest fear is that one day the story will end.

So, keep your story going and so will I. I must stay on this side of sanity.
posted by jekelhyde, at 1/21/2007 12:20 PM

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