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Wayne Besen
PO Box 25491
Brooklyn, NY 11202
TruthWinsOut.org Hopes Haggard Will Come To A Place of Self-Acceptance
NEW YORK - TruthWinsOut.org said Ted Haggard's inability to go from gay to straight was no surprise and indicative of these failed programs. Haggard entered an intensive "restoration" process after he was fired from New Life Church and resigned as head of the National Association of Evangelicals in 2006 amid allegations that he had an affair with a male prostitute.
"As far as predictions go, the failure of Haggard's 'ex-gay' program was not exactly like picking the New York Giants over the undefeated New England Patriots in the Super bowl," said TruthWinsOut.org's Executive Director Wayne Besen."It is pretty much a given that these programs don't work and we hope Haggard comes to a genuine place of love and self-acceptance."
Truth WinsOut.org is a non-profit organization that counters right wing propaganda, exposes the "ex-gay" myth and educates America about gay life. For more information, visit www.TruthWinsOut.org. - 30 -
27 Comments:
I'm trying to find some info indicating anything other than that TH has left the supervision of the church. That isn't the same as coming out or anything like it. I suspect he stuck with them s long as there was some money ocming in his direction.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/07/2008 10:55 AM
Watch out, Stephen Bennett Ministries - you may have some more ridiculous competition soon! LOL
posted by S., at
2/07/2008 11:44 AM
Like Ben said, how has the program failed him? What's the story? Where is the evidence?
I mean obviously I think any "conversion" program would fail, but still, how do you justify this headline Wayne? Did he come out? Did he run away from the program and denounce it?
Seems like a lot is being assumed.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/07/2008 4:57 PM
It was a very logical headline. Haggard went into the program to change him. They claimed that he had been cured. Now he has quit and is not cured. Common sense. Plus, having studied these groups for 10 years, I think it is fair to say that they flat out don't work. Period.
posted by Wayne Besen, at
2/07/2008 5:02 PM
I don't doubt the truth or likelihood of what you have said, Wayne, but I would still like to know HOW you know. This is important for credibility. I doubt Teddy announced that he actually likes men more than owmen, for example.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/07/2008 7:43 PM
TruthWinsOut.org works tirelessly to document the flawed 'ex-gay' movement.
The interviews compiled (by Wayne) of failure after failure and of the damage inflicted upon individuals and families by these groups provides a real context to these flawed programs.
And it is not a stretch, as Wayne points out, given the statement released ...
"the process of restoring Ted Haggard is incomplete and (New Life) maintains its original stance that he should not return to vocational ministry."
Sounds like getting Ted off the Tina and wanting snatch is a failure to me as well.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/07/2008 10:35 PM
Yup, I just read the statement elsewhere. I think that's the evidence that was missing from the original post, Wayne.
I like how it says his healing is "incomplete". Basically they're saying he's still kinda gay.
I wonder how many showers it will take to scrub off the rest of the gay.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/08/2008 1:42 PM
I think we should go easy on Ted for the next couple of weeks. What if this is the start of his coming out journey? Maybe he is struggling with finally being honest with himself. God knows it was difficult for me and I didn't have a career that was dependent on living a lie.
One thing we know is that he is no less gay now than he was last year or several years ago. We do him a disservice by being critical or smug at this point in his life. We are supposed to help people out of the closet, not scare them back in.
Lets wait for him to make a statement or see what he does in the coming weeks before passing judgement.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/08/2008 10:00 PM
Well Steve, that's one approach, and you're welcome to purse it.
I however believe in accountability. His lies hurt people, he should pay for it.
And I for one have never claimed that my purpose in life is to help people come out of the closet. That's something people need to do on their own.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/09/2008 3:59 AM
We should 'help' Haggard when he admits he's gay, that 'ex-gay' conversion therapies are a load of soul crushing horse shit, that there's absolutely nothing wrong with being GLBT and then apologizes for all the harm he and his bogus church of hate and greed have caused. Until then, he can twist in the wind for all I care. Save your sympathy for his/their victims and the families of GLBT people, especially teens, who are dead today from suicide or being gay bashed. Gary (NJ)
posted by Anonymous, at
2/09/2008 10:13 AM
I am guessing that this is happening because Ted Haggard had another "fall" (i.e., needed true intimacy in the middle of the hetero charade), which they would be able to keep quiet but would nonetheless cause a complete separation from New Life Church, a group who may well have seen the light on this subject. Maybe soon the Christian church will awaken and acknopwledge what we all know, which is that the idea of changing a gay man into a straight man is completely and totally absurd.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/09/2008 10:25 AM
WhatI find so revealing about all this ex-gay nonsense is that their ministries can't produce any scientific evidence for any of it. They've not published one word in any of the respectable, legitimate scientific literature. Though some claim they have converted, the majority of them never engage in hetero sex and choose to be celibate in some cases. The fact remains, they can stop having sex with same gender but it doesn't make them straight, they are and always will be gay. Remove the religious component and the guilt associated with it then you'll see a different picture. Religious denominations should be targeted for supporting this "perversion" therapy and brainwashing of vulnerable people.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/09/2008 10:44 AM
Evangelicals are against science. Since they don't LIKE reality, they reject it in favor of total superstition, a stunning abrogation of their responsibility to be thinking human beings. It is no surprise that they fall for the ex-gay nonsense, nor all the other absurdities that they base their lives upon. They're imbeciles who should be mocked for choosing to abandon the use of their minds, and ESPECIALLY for encouraging others to do the same. They deserve to be held in contempt.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/09/2008 1:39 PM
Believe me, I have no sympathy for the guy. I agree that he has harmed countless people. But at the same time, think of the good it would do for so many if he was honest with himself and went public with it. If that's the case. Maybe I'm being optimistic, but it would be wonderful if that happened.
All I'm suggesting is we take a 'wait and see' attitude as opposed to a cynical one for the next few weeks and see how this plays out with him. If it becomes clear that this is just another one of his whacky, self preserving, hypocritical lies, then I am all for exposing it.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/09/2008 6:06 PM
I don't read anywhere that TH has gone back to sleeping with men. It reads that he left the program - that is true. But maybe he got into the program and found out outhat it did not fit with his idea of changing?? There are lots of theories, models, programs etc... that do this sort of thing and maybe he didn't like it?? But nowhere do we have any documented proof that he has gone back to sleeping with men.
proof, schmoof--the man's gay and that's that! I just hope he can emerge from all this with some semblance of dignity and sanity. I can't blame him for what has happened. He was caught up in a tortured existence. Let us all wish him well, that he accepts his sexuality and, maybe, finds love one day.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/10/2008 8:06 PM
Wayne never said he was having sex with men again. He said he was unable to go from gay to straight. That's a big difference - a difference the right wing has yet to comprehend.
The press release said Ted was not fully "restored". Meaning he did not complete the program, which was intended to "cure" him of his homosexuality. That press release is all the proof Wayne needed to justify his headline.
It is completely irrelevant whether Ted is having sex with men again. He most likely is NOT currently having sex with men, since after the media exposure many, many people on both sides of the issue are now watching him closely, waiting for him to slip up.
He may try another program after this. Most likely will. And then maybe another and another. It's all totally inconsequential - he can attend a thousand ex-gay programs and it won't mean a thing if he is unable to transform into a heterosexual.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/10/2008 9:07 PM
Still, Waynes comments are presumptive and have no merit. TeH has not spoken on the matter as of yet - has he?
Besides, if he completed the program, I suspect Wayne would have writtena similar blog. And now it just comes sooner rather than later. Also, gays seem to make it a lose lose situation. If you had gay sex once - then you're gay and nothing can change it.
Somehow - that seems like bad logic. That's like saying if you had straight sex once - you're straight.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/10/2008 9:17 PM
Anonymous:
Are you kidding me? First, it is the right wing that defines sexuality by behavior - no one in the GLBT movement. Stop buying into your own silly propaganda before you further embarrass yourself.
Second, Haggard did not have one sexual experience. He had a multi-year affair with an escort. Do you not read the news before you comment? Do you not consider multiple trips from Colorado Springs to Denver to have meth-fueled sex with an escort evidence of homosexuality? Do you think a straight man would take such steps and jeopardize his multi-million dollar ministry and family?
Third, if a person drops out of law school he or she is not a lawyer. If Haggard drops out of "straight school," he is not a straight man. The ex-gay ministry failed to do what they set out to accomplish. This point is not arguable. It did not work, so get over it.
Finally, he was supposed to be "cured" and now the church is telling him to take a hike. While we do not know exactly what happened, any thinking person knows that the experience did not end well. Haggard will not be at the Playboy mansion womanizing anytime soon. This is not rocket science, but common sense. If you can't accept reality, you should browse WorldNutDaily, and stop insulting the intelligence of my readers.
I do not have to hear from Rev. Haggard before I comment on his situation.
As he has no credibility on this issue, what he has to say must be taken with a serious grain of salt. Indeed, we will only trust his assessment of his sexuality, when he tells the truth and comes out - as it is obvious he is a gay man.
Given the discussion of what makes you "either" gay or straight--a couple of thoughts. First, I think most of us are neither one or the other but some combo of nature and nurture, depending on society's rules, your genetics and your upbringing. Just a theory, but it seems to mesh with my experience, at least.
And I think we do choose on some level. I'm gay, but I could choose not to have sex. So does that make me straight? Of course not--I still sneak glances at hot guys, still throw down to Shakira and still care about how I dress (to mention a few stereotypes).
Does saying "choose" make anyone nervous? Because that's what the Christians always use against us, and we've spent years saying it isn't a choice. Well, it isn't and it is. I think our preference isn't chosen but how we express it is. Two different things, IMHO.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/12/2008 4:47 PM
According to some of the idiots on the anti-gay side, you are straight even if you've never had sex with a woman and never wanted to have sex with a woman. Heck, they think you're straight even if the thought of having sex with a woman makes you nauseas.
They repeat over and over that there is NO such thing as gay or homosexual. Everyone is straight but some "choose" to "misbehave" by having homosexual sex.
Strange that Anonymous doesn't seem to find that perplexing.
Okay - the question again. If being gay is not about gay sex - how exactly is TH gay again? In other words - if having straight sex does not make you straight - how does having gay sex make you gay?
posted by Anonymous, at
2/12/2008 11:12 PM
Ok, I'll bite. I'll even retract that Haggard is 100% gay. Just as I don't believe having straight sex once makes you forever "straight," I also don't think one or two gay experiences make you forever "gay." Therein lies the issue. Sexuality is fluid for some people. Some are attracted two both genders. I've had sex with a woman but I'm more attracted to men. Yes, I could choose to be straight, probably, but I would just end up like Haggard, sneaking around on my wife. I'd rather live openly and with integrity than try to conform to some standard imposed by others.
With Haggard, there's a pattern of sex with men. Yes, he had children, so he obviously had straight sex now and then. Just call him bisexual then!
But regardless of why he withdrew from this program, his sexual desires will not change. He will always have sexual desires. No, I can't tell definitively if he prefers one over the other. What I do know if that he needs the freedom to decide for himself, to evaluate who he is and how he wants to live his life. He needs to make that decision not in an atmosphere of coercion and manipulation but in one of integrity and honesty.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/13/2008 11:40 AM
Riverwolf,
I fully agree. Niether you nor I can say for sure what is TH 's preference. That's between him and whomever.
And he should make that decision and discovery in a place free of coercion, politics, and media influences.
posted by Anonymous, at
2/13/2008 4:30 PM
