Friday, June 06, 2008
Orlando SentinelGay activists and clergy are planning a silent protest Saturday morning outside a conference of ex-gays who contend homosexuality can be cured by religious counseling.
The conference, called "Love Won Out" and sponsored by the conservative Colorado-based Christian organization Focus on the Family, has sparked controversy and outrage with several billboards in Orlando and other cities that host the traveling event. The billboards declare: "I Questioned Homosexuality and discovered love won out." The group's message is that change is possible.
"For gays, this is the same as saying you don't have to be black, you don't have to be Jewish," said Wayne Besen, executive director of TruthWinsOut.org, a Brooklyn-based gay advocacy group. "They represent us as broken and incomplete people."
Protesters, organized by Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians and Gays, will meet outside First Presbyterian Church in Orlando, where organizers say the conference is expected to draw about 500 participants. The conference coincides with Gay Days, which annually attracts thousands of gays to Orlando and Disney World.
Earlier in the week, leaders of Orlando's gay community denounced the conference and the billboards as part of the larger agenda by Christian groups to deny gays rights -- including same-sex marriage -- and portray gays and lesbians as deviant and abnormal.
Before Orlando, Love Won Out had erected the controversial billboards in eight cities. In some cities, the billboards have been vandalized.
The ex-gays conference is the setting for the latest battleground between conservative Christian ministries and gay activists over the unsolved question of what determines a person's sexual orientation. The ministries argue that same-sex attraction results from specific events in a person's life -- such as sexual abuse, personal trauma and dysfunctional families -- that can be corrected with Christian-based counseling.
"Same-sex attraction is the result of a number of influential factors, but, no, we don't believe people are born gay," said Melissa Fryrear, director of gender issues for Focus on the Family. "We believe homosexuals can be converted and same-sex attractions can change."
Research by the American Psychological Association and other mental-health organizations disputes that view of homosexuality, said Kathryn Norsworthy, a licensed psychologist in Winter Park.
"Homosexuality is not a deviant behavior or abnormal. There is no need for a cure," Norsworthy said.
Jill Bley, a psychologist with the American Psychological Association, said there is no evidence that therapy can change a person's sexuality -- only that some people can repress their sexual desires.
"They cannot change because, we believe, it is a chemical, biological thing that happens in very early stages of development," said Bley, whose practice is in Cincinnati.
Love Won Out points to a recent study as proof that change in sexual orientation is possible. Researchers followed a group of gays and lesbians who had been referred for "conversion therapy" by Exodus International, an Orlando-based ministry for ex-gays. The study found that 15 of the 98 gays and lesbians had become heterosexual.
But Besen says the therapy is a false hope that Love Won Out sells to unhappy homosexuals, their families and friends. Scores of ex-gays who marry believing they have turned straight end up in divorce court after discovering they hadn't changed after all, Besen contends.
"They show you the marriage licenses," he said. "They don't show you the divorce papers."
33 Comments:
Ahhhh round and round we go where we stop nobody knows.
Same ol cow patty different day. Still doesn't look or smell good.
35 years after the first ex-gay meeting in San Rafael and not much has changed. With the exception of leaders. Its a regualr revolving door and the defectors out number the current leaders at this point.
15 out of 98 people have changed? Those are not good statistics. How many of them are professional ex-gays? and work for the company?
Lets see. Let's me guess, let's do the math together. I'll break it down for you.
1) Alan Chambers
2) Mike Haley
3) Melissa Fryrear
4)Christine Sneerenger
5) John Paulk
6) Ann Paulk
7) John Smid
8) Chad Thompson
9) Sy Rogers
10) joe Dallas
11) Mike Goeke
12) Randy thomas
13) Frank Worthen
14) Stephen Bennett
15) Richard Cohen
Here are some more numbers these are some of the people who changed their minds and recanted their ex-gay story. They are now ex-ex-gay. Interestingly many of these people are former leaders.
1)John Evans
2)Mike Bussee
3)Jeremy Marks
4)Ann Phillips
5)Peterson Toscano
6)Christine Bakkee
7)Anthony Venn Brown
8)Noe Guiterrez
9)Bishop Gene Robinson
10)Mel White
11)Darlene Bogle
12)Daniel Gonzalez
13)Mike Williams
14)Justin Lee
15)Greg Haskins
16) Rev. Jery Stephensen
17)Robert Vest
18)Shaun o'Donnell
The numbers speak for themselves.
posted by , at
6/06/2008 3:14 PM
"Same-sex attraction is the result of a number of influential factors, but, no, we don't believe people are born gay," said Melissa Fryrear, director of gender issues for Focus on the Family.
Melissa Fryrear is right. And yes, homosexuality is abnormal.
posted by , at
6/06/2008 8:11 PM
What Fryrear *believes* is irrelevant, the considerable weight of medical SCIENCE is that yes we ARE born gay and the only thing that is abnornal are self-hating closet cases like you who waste their lives fecklessly trying to propagandize the rest of us on websites like this one.
Gary (NJ)
posted by , at
6/06/2008 9:46 PM
Melissa Fryrear hasn’t even written a book yet that includes the Dutch Study (which discludes monogamous couples) on how absolutely all homosexual Americans are promiscuous sluts.
So how can we possibly take her seriously?
(Focus on the Family-wise speaking..)
posted by Unknown, at
6/07/2008 1:33 AM
As Wayne says..."Love Won Out sells to unhappy homosexuals".
Anonymous, whoever you are, that's YOU! What is it that you hate so much about yourself? Seems that the denial of your natural orientation is prompting you to come here to vent. We see through it and you, accept who you are. The only abnormal thing about being gay is the refusal to accept it. Clearly you are the one who is abnormal. Sexual orientation is not a choice, but religion is!
posted by , at
6/07/2008 5:16 AM
As we all know, there is absolutely no evidence that gay people can change from gay to straight. There ARE, however, countless stories of innumerable lives that were shattered because a gay person embraced the notion as a worthy idea. The only reason that some born again Christians believe that "change is possible" is because they WANT to believe it, not because there is any evidence for it.
Their very own "15 out of 98" study is damning. At their very best, they admit that 86% of all participants failed to change. A 14% success rate isn't a success rate at all. John Paulk and an exhaustive list of others reveals that even most if not all of those 15 will eventually see the light and learn to love themselves as the unique creatures that they are, people who should love both themselves and others.
On the other side of the coin, it has been proven that homophobic fundamentalists CAN and often DO change. Millions have renounced their former assertions and have begun leading normal lives in which they look back regretfully at their thinking that stigmatizing gay people was godly. They now see that doing so, especially in the name of God, was an unholy, evil act which has nothing to do with goodness, grace or decency.
To the fundamentalists here: You CAN change. You can become decent human beings by learning to respect those who are different in life and by not preaching about something that you truly know very little about. It starts by realizing that we're all connected, and that we're all in this together. Our vast differences are cause for celebration, not condemnation. Religious fanaticism is completely changeable, and that's a goal worth pursuing. You can start by going to: www.fundamentalists-anonymous.org
posted by , at
6/07/2008 2:10 PM
Dear anonymous: Just so you know--
Heterosexuality is not normal, and exclusive heterosexuality is far less common than you might thing.
Heterosxesuality is not normal. It's just common.
posted by , at
6/07/2008 3:09 PM
As if Melissa Fryrear has room to talk. She makes Rosie O'Donnell and the Indigo Girls look like lipstick lesbians, compared to her.
posted by S., at
6/07/2008 4:15 PM
Ooohh! Maybe you could dress up as straight people!
posted by , at
6/08/2008 3:35 PM
So lately this "anonymous" who doesn't even have the ovaries to admit who they are has been saying things like "yes the ex-gays are right, homosexuality is abnormal, etc.", just these very short comments - and absolutely NO evidence or logic behind them.
This is the very epitome of the ex-gay philosophy. Say something. Believe it's true, or at least claim it is even if you know better. Pay no heed to whether it really is or not. Just say it over and over, maybe reality will change for you if you say it enough.
I wanna play! If I just say random things with no credibility behind them can they be true?
Ahem...
I am a millionaire.
...
Did anything happen? Should I keep saying it? How many times do I have to say it before it happens?
posted by , at
6/08/2008 7:30 PM
Now the son of Jerry Falwell is buying into this scam:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66389
There is a faction of Americans that are frequently ignored by the mainstream culture. They are treated either as if they do not exist or as if their existence is an affront to modern society.
In fact, I imagine there are many people in our nation who do not even know that these Americans are in our midst.
Who is this group of our fellow citizens?
They are former homosexuals, or ex-gays – people who have abandoned their previous lifestyle through faith in Jesus Christ.
1. Ex-gays do exist...as frauds.
2. If fundies like Jonathan Falwell have their way, homosexual would have no possible existence.
3. How would some of these con artists react if someone left the "Christian lifestyle"?
Today, Focus on the Family will host its Love Won Out conference in Orlando, Fla., the same day homosexuals from across the nation will trek to the city for Disney's annual "Gay Day."
"Love Won Out speakers are bold enough to challenge the dominant 'born gay' view," says Melissa Fryrear, director of Focus on the Family's gender and sexuality department. "We believe men and women have the right to manage their sexuality according to their faith. We reject the notion that men and women are bound by genetics to live homosexually."
The key to this movement is choice. As explained on the Love Won Out website, these "men and women who struggle with unwanted same-sex attractions" have chosen to "steward their impulses in a way that aligns with their faith convictions."
What about those who are struggling with unwanted religion, the so-called "apostates"?
This is a beautiful representation of the biblical precept wherein, through our faith and trust in Jesus Christ, we become "new creatures" (2 Corinthians 5:17).
Four years ago, I had the privilege of hearing a sermon at Thomas Road Baptist Church by Mike Haley, a man who lived for 12 years as a homosexual. The author of the book "101 Frequently Asked Questions About Homosexuality," Mike told how he "believed the lie" that he was born gay because that is considered conventional wisdom today.
1. I hate it when these fundies exploit the words of Jesus Christ for their own agenda.
2. Why did Falwell have the "priviledge" of attending a certain sermon? Is it because it's in his dad's church?
But, as Mike notes, to believe that misinformation requires one to believe that there is "no possibility of change," even though many have indeed changed.
This is a message the Church of Jesus Christ needs to hear and embrace. We must not turn away from lovingly calling people to repentance and pointing to the Word of God as the avenue for change (Hebrews 5:12).
The wonderful part of Mike Haley's story is that he had a loving Christian family that never stopped praying for him to return to the faith of his childhood.
Today, Mike works to help those who are unhappy with their lifestyle to discover change through Christ. He, along with untold others, are living pictures of this change. You see, Mike is married and the father of two sons.
How about those who are unhappy with their faith? There is so much bigotry in religion that makes me unhappy about it.
Why is it important to detail this story?
Two reasons: 1) Because young people who are experiencing same-sex attraction need to know that there are others who have been there and have found freedom through faith in Christ, and 2) because there are adult homosexuals who are unhappy with their lives.
I believe these people need the option of hearing about others – like Mike Haley and Melissa Fryrear – who understand what they are experiencing. But this goes against mainstream thought, which dictates that change is not possible or wanted. However, we must persevere in proclaiming the truth of the Gospel (Romans 1:16).
My father wrote in 2005 that ministries to homosexuals are critical because "the 21st century church is facing issues that earlier generations never imagined."
So, while the media are largely silent about (or critical of) this movement, I wanted to use this forum to proclaim these ministries that offer hope and change by speaking truth with love and understanding.
For more information on this weekend's Orlando event – which is Love Won Out's 50th U.S. conference in its 10-year history – visit www.lovewonout.com. The event is today, June 7, from 8 to 5:30 p.m. at First Presbyterian Church of Orlando (106 East Church Street).
Even though the mainstream media is silent about the ex-gay scam, Wayne is downright exposing it.
posted by , at
6/08/2008 8:24 PM
There are many ex gays who don't talk about their past. They just don't. They are ostracised from the church in many ways and so stay silent and they are not welcome in gay circles because people consistently call them frauds, self loathing etc.... It would be nice to see some common ground between ex gays and gays - that even though their opinions about sexuality are different there is no reason for hostility - from either side.
posted by , at
6/09/2008 12:35 PM
There is no reason for hostility, except one...
telling lies aobut yourself to validate your own choices, and the concomitant telling lies about other people to deny them what you have decided you don't want.
If someone wants to be ex-gay, it is fine with me, though I seirously don't get it.
Telling people you have changed when you are still just as gay as you ever were is not ok with me.
Telling people that I could change, too, if only i just wanted it badly enough is also not OK with me. I do not have that capacity for self-delusion.
Telling other people that i should be treated differently because of what you believe is also not OK with me.
posted by , at
6/09/2008 1:00 PM
I don't see why anyone would take Mike Haley seriously to begin with.
Mike Haley is a male hooker, a gigolo - meaning he would sleep with ANYONE as long as the price is right, man or woman. There's no "ex-gay" to him.
Prostitutes fall into the "it" category - not "gay" or "straight". And beings the price was right with Exodus, they are now his current pimp.
If Exodus wasn't buttering his bread right now, he'd be on the streets again waving down cars driving by, as it's obvious his education is no higher than maybe a 5th grader. Even MacDonald's wouldn't waste their time hiring him.
posted by S., at
6/09/2008 1:09 PM
"There are many ex gays who don't talk about their past"
See, when the "ex-gays" say there's "thosands upon thousands of them" out there, they're trying to count a particular majority - which would be young people who got drunk in college, slept with the same sex, never told anyone, and continued life as the heterosexual they were the day before.
Those people were NEVER gay, and they don't need to parade around as an "ex-gay". They were what you would call "DRUNK". Nor would they want to stand alongside the creepy likes of Chambers, Thomas and Glatze, anyway.
posted by S., at
6/09/2008 1:29 PM
Anonymous at 12:35, by "ex-gays" do you mean:
a) Persons who fomerly had sexual desire only for their own sex but now have it only for the opposite sex, or
b) Persons who have sexual desire only for their own sex and have changed from being sexually active to not being sexually active?
posted by , at
6/09/2008 1:36 PM
Phil,
I mean people who call themselves ex gay. I really don't care what they do or don't do. I don't care that some lie to themselves. Or that some say celibacy is joy.
I know that their politics (those in the media) are mean spirited - "in the name of love". But gays have been just as mean spirited back.
I would just like to see poeple from both sides meet on common ground. I big order - I understand.
posted by , at
6/09/2008 8:26 PM
Wayne, would you do something about this jerk Zhang!
posted by richard schillen, at
6/10/2008 9:33 AM
ANONYMOUS: The gay cousin of a good friend of mine suddenly enrolled in an ex-gay program two years ago. No one in the gay community "turned their back" on him or ignored him. In fact, he was still invited to all of their parties and dinners because they liked the man despite his confusion. In fact, some of his gay friends drew even closer to him.
SO when you say that "...they (ex-gays) are not welcome in gay circles because people consistently call them frauds, self loathing...", why don't you just admit that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about?
Where did you get this information? From personally hanging around in "gay circles" and seeing it firsthand, for yourself, or did one of the "leaders" or "pastors" that you surrender your feeble brain to merely say it was so? You're a true imbecile. Get a damn life and put your energies towards furthering your own existence for goodness sakes.
posted by , at
6/10/2008 10:43 AM
Chris,
That's one guy you know. And why are you using abusive language - is there something threatening about what I said? And did this Chris guy stay ex gay or did he accept his gayness? If he accepted his gayness then that's a different story. If he stayed on the ex gay path - I doubt his chums are still hanging around?
There's no nedd to be defensive? Is there? This is exactly what I am talking about.
posted by , at
6/10/2008 5:50 PM
Anonymous:
You must understand, we truly feel sorry for you. It must be difficult to live a lie. We want you to know, you are okay the way you are. There is no need to deny who you are. We are here to help you.
posted by Wayne Besen, at
6/10/2008 9:03 PM
Wayne,
Who's living a lie? When confronted with the idea that people from opposite views on an issue should try to find common ground - your resoning is that I live a lie? That makes no sense. Sounds like you're dodging an important issue.
posted by , at
6/11/2008 1:49 PM
Anonymous at 12:35 and 8:26, just, please, to clarify my understanding of what you use the term "ex-gay" to mean:
If a man is a virgin, and has never had sexual contact with any person, but has always felt sexual desire only for his own sex and never for the opposite sex, would you call him ex-gay? Or never-gay? Or what?
posted by , at
6/11/2008 3:10 PM
I'd call him whatever he wants to be called. Fair?
posted by , at
6/11/2008 3:38 PM
Anonymous:
Please define common ground. What you dodge is that the ex-gay BS is an entire multi-million dollar industry that confuses stereotypes with science, regularly lies and dehumanizes gay people by calling them perverse and sexually broken. Not only that, but these groups work to pass anti-gay laws.
Please, explain to me the common ground here? Help shed some light on why this hate campaign is good for me and other gay people?
posted by Wayne Besen, at
6/12/2008 12:12 AM
Each group is adamant that their view and opinion is perfect. I doubt that is true of either. That's common ground. It might make both groups re-evaluate how staunchly they take their opinions. Kind of ignorance on both sides for one.
posted by , at
6/16/2008 8:44 PM
In addition, both sides promote hate. And not all ex gays or religious people are in the "industry". Some are real people who don't want to live the way you do. Isn't that okay? You don't want to live as they do - so you? Isn't it good to see that?
posted by , at
6/17/2008 3:10 PM
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