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-------------------------
Wayne Besen
PO Box 25491
Brooklyn, NY 11202
Where Did John McCain dig her up from? What scares me most along with her Gays can be cured Nonesence is that This party can get us into another "war" that we can't afford to get into and she'll simply say it's God's will that this country be Bombarded with nuclear bombs because Of abortion,Gay Rights and so on just as Falwell said about 911. I know my thoughts may be simple minded but I just don't think this Country can stand 4 more years of Republicans in office
posted by Anonymous, at
9/06/2008 9:32 PM
Do you not like her for promoting ex gay therapy - which is totally cool. Or do you hate her for being religious and from a pentecosal bankground like many gay people?
Don't insult our gay brothers and sisters out there who have accepted their homosexuality and have a pentecostal background! Their religion is still valuable to them.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/06/2008 10:28 PM
I'm gay, I understand that some gay people come from that background but this woman frightens me because she could be in office and have the legal power to use her personal views on Homosexuality against our gay brothers and sisters by denieing rights and whatever else she may have up her sleeve.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/07/2008 2:18 AM
Sounds like a christian jihadist to me! If the electorate is so dumb as to elect McCain, then we should start thinking about packing our bags and getting out of the country altogether.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/07/2008 8:21 AM
I was Pentecostal in my youth. Now, as a wiser adult, I must say, looking back, that the Pentecostals are totally out of it. They have little use for logic or rational thought. Huge ambitions are often hatched merely upon the altar of "feeling" and, even worse, "God told me to..."
These folks are often entertaining and even uplifting with their music and their praise, but for goodness sakes, keep 'em in church! When they attempt to run government, it's a disaster. Remember James Watt? He was Pentecostal. "We don't need to worry about the environment because Jesus is coming soon anyway", he said. This was 30 years ago.
John Ashcroft was Pentecostal too. What a winner. And now, Sarah Palin, who declares that she's "not sure if global warming is the result of man's actions." Really Sarah? How do you know that? It's most obvious that she didn't exactly sit down with piles of scientific papers and analyze them. Maybe Gold told her outright, who knows.
The GOP is pathetic. Here we are, two months before an election, presented with a VP choice who believes that creationism should be taught in public schools. Don't be fooled. People who think this way must be kept out of office.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/07/2008 11:31 AM
I wasn't raised pentecostal, but I grown up around them - and I can tell you, you wouldn't want one for a VP.
I had two for a manager back in my teens, who would threaten to (illegally) fire somebody because they listened to secular music. I was personally threatened, because I stopped by on my day off, wearing a KISS t-shirt.
In short, a pentecostal isn't fit to manage a peanut league baseball team, much less run the country.
posted by S., at
9/07/2008 8:02 PM
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posted by Anonymous, at
9/07/2008 11:15 PM
"Who are these bloggers that sound like the old farts froom yesteryear - that by naming one or two people who were pentecostal that those one or two people represent all and that "that group" of people are stupid, dumb, incapable, etc...
Sounds like plain ole discrimination to me."
As far as I care, I don't consider ANYONE who's "in your face" about one religion or another as somebody who's fit to run the country. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, Pentecostal, I don't care. And this includes the "in your face" Atheism, which is even starting to get on my nerves.
I don't base my pentecostal opinion on just a couple people. Can you say Benny Hinn? An entire auditorium of those people = an OVERFLOWING bag of nuts.
And plus thanks to the internet, I can better get to know how extreme some of these people are (the people TRYING to run this country, especially), their fanatical histories and so forth.
It's certainly not discrimination when you're just stating the facts about a group who discriminates nationwide and abroad. There's a difference between discrimination and retaliation.
posted by S., at
9/07/2008 11:52 PM
I'm sick of religious people whining when their blatantly unfounded ideas get criticized. Religion is not a neutral trait some people just happen to have, like race, gender or sexual orientation - it is a specific belief system, an ideology people are indoctrinated into and/or choose to believe in.
And there is uniformity in each religion, because each religion is a particular way of thinking - therefore all members of a particular religion think alike. Not exactly alike of course, but they're all still marching to the same drum. That's the whole point of religion, it's a collection of people who have all decided to believe (or at least pretend to believe) in the same set of ideas, and celebrate them in the same space.
And yeah, some ideologies are worse than others. Some religious beliefs are just preposterous in the sense that they are not possible - virgin births for example (presumably without artificial insemination). Ideas like these are dumb but can be harmless (mostly).
Other ideas are not just unrealistic, they are morally objectionable and dangerous - the idea that the magic sky fairy who supposedly created the world and all life in it wants us to be killing people in a country that never attacked us - that's not just dumb, it's cruel and psychotic. And while not all Pentacostals are exactly the same, it's also true that it wouldn't have happened in certain other religions or denomonations whose worldviews wouldn't accomodate such an idea.
Can you see a Buddhist saying such things in public, and receiving a warm reception for it from her fellow Buddhists? How about a Unitarian? Of course not.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 12:21 AM
"In fact, I've yet to find a religious gay person here - who actually read, studies, practices his or her faith."
Yoo-hoo, I'm one of many GLBTQ people of faith who actually read, study and practices my faith, who reads and occasionally posts to Wayne's blog.
Of course, there is no shortage of conservative and pentacostal Christians who like to claim that we are not "real" Christians, so your question is probably self-serving and malicious in intent anyways.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 1:27 AM
If you wanna get technical, it's the Christians who twisted the Bible, since the Jews had it first, not the other way around. And then they wrote their own scriptures ("new testament") based on what they thought our Bible is about. And Muslims hold dear the Quran, which is not the same book that people refer to as "The Bible."
posted by Emily K, at
9/08/2008 1:43 AM
Anonymous - I hear what you're saying. I have to wonder - how many things I have missed or failed to understand. How then can I tell any other person they wre right or wrong bout their religion. My biggest beef is not with the wide range of beliefs systems that exist - but that other seriously try to impose them on someone else. I can be so naive - I really thought we lived in a free country where you are allowed to practice your religion so that others could practive theris, too.
Emily, You are soooo funny. I am reading a book now that is going through the old testament and explaining the Hebraic (is that the correct terminology) understanding of their language, customs, and traditions - calendrs, etc...
I wish more christians would study the OT from a Hebrew writer's perspective. I just shake my head at some of the things I hear christians in my own church espouse to. (rolling eyes)
While reading this book (because it is written by a christian) I am trying to be vigilant for their own personal doctrine that creeps in to books. Again - eyes rolling - but you get it - you really do get it. I've appreciated you on this blog.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 2:16 AM
Who cares what religion Palin is? As long as she keeps it out of her government duties. (Same for Obama's team).
posted by Joey, at
9/08/2008 2:24 AM
I agree with you completely on that one anon. To just add one more piece to consider: We don't know, with politicians, how much they actually believe or practice everything taught by the house of worship they attend, or how much they're using it for political gain. I suspect (just my own opinion) that Obama was greatly a part of the Wright church because he needed it as an "in" to the local Democrat political scene, and....who knows?, maybe it's the same for Palin.
posted by Joey, at
9/08/2008 2:51 AM
Emily, with respect, if I recall, Leviticus is in the old testament, the Jewish part of the bible. As you are aware, Leviticus states "men shall not lie down with men as with women". There were no christians around to write that. So who is twisting what? True, fundamentalist cultists such as Huckabee, Robertson, Phelps, and others use it to get votes for the republican party, but if it had not appeared in Leviticus, they would not be able to spread their hatred of us so easily. Orthodox Jews use the same verse to spread their hatred too you know.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 8:11 AM
Well, they twist it to mean that women can't have sex with women, where no verse in the Tanakh ("OT") says any such thing. There is NO law against Lesbianism.
Anonymous, I'm not really sure if you're being sarcastic against me or not. But it's good that you're reading that book. Might I suggest, however, that you read a book written by a Jewish author or rabbi? I guarantee you wouldn't get a Christian perspective "sneaking in".
The Quran shouldn't scare you. It's a text like any other. Believe it or not, you can't open the pages and see that it says "fly planes into buildings and blow selves up."
posted by Emily K, at
9/08/2008 10:28 AM
If a candidate believed that the Earth was flat, would we excuse them if they asserted that such a belief was their "religious" belief? Of course not. It's the same with the Pentecostals. Their beliefs make them unfit for office, just like some secular beliefs make some secular people unfit for office.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 11:09 AM
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posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 11:10 AM
I just read the results and dug into the studies of several prominent polling agencies, and my goodness is Barack Obama melting down quickly. Obama badly needs to shake things up before he tanks completely, but he doesn't seem to have the courage to do the only thing that might save his candidacy, which is replacing Joe Biden with Hillary Clinton. But even that probably won't work now anyway, since what would have looked like an act of strength and magnanimity a few weeks ago would now be correctly seen as an act of supreme weakness and desperation.
Look, as a DEMOCRAT I feel Obama was very foolish - from a long-term perspective - to not graciously gift the nomination to Hillary and then condescend to accept the vice-presidency. That's the sort of Olympian, above-the-fray role Obama was born to play, not straight-up street-fighting against a devious old aviator and an Alaskan she-barracuda. When he loses as badly in November as it is beginning to look, he's probably one-and-done on the national scene.
I still think we should draft Hillary Clinton...
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 11:25 AM
What are you joking?? Obama should have "gifted" the nomination to his opponent?? What is this B.S.?
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 11:51 AM
Whoever wins the White House, I hope follows Charlie Wrangel's lead and reinstitutes the draft that should include women. No deferrals either, mandatory service for those eligible. Then we'll see how fast the war will be over.
Anonymous, McCain is only ahead in the polls because of the recent convention, as was Obama immediately after the Democratic convention. As far as electoral college votes go, Obama is miles ahead and that's what counts. As for McCain's mantra "change is coming", just who is he speaking to? His cabal is comprised mostly of very powerful corporate lobbyists. Sounds more like Bush with every passing day.
As for McCain being labeled a maverick. Hardly worthy of that title since he's voted with Bush more than 90% of the time, mavericks don't conform, McCain has and will continue to do so.
The GOP boasts of fiscal conservatism. Well then....why is it when a republican president leaves office, he leaves the country with a soaring national debt? Clinton served twice and left us with a huge net surplus. Why are we now in debt to the tune of more than $3 trillion and why is China financing most of it and the beneficiary of many of the jobs that were once American jobs? Virtually everything we buy today is made in China no thanks to the conservative corporate conglomerates who voted for Bush and will vote for McCain. How fiscally conservative is that? How is McCain going to address 47 million Americans without access to health care? Giving people $2500 in tax credits to buy insurance would never work and in most cases would never be enough to pay for exorbitant premiums in most cases. What does he do to address the millions of unemployed, where do they get insurance from? What if wealthy republicans lost their jobs, their wealth, income,homes...how would THEY get access to health care, do tell? Since they are against socialized programs, they wouldn't apply for medicaid now would they and while we're at it, why does John McCain draw a social security check? That's a socialized program too! Why don't all of the wealthiest republicans just donate their social security checks to the poor instead? Now that would be mighty christian of them.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 12:05 PM
McCain needed:
1. a tie to female voters 2. a bind with conservative christians 3. a link to the energy folk and pro drilling folk 4. a bond with 'family' voters and a pro-life advocate 5. a liaison with G-D
Republican strategists looked at the McCain Deficits and Palin's characteristics, background and beliefs filled matched the tags. Any body heard of Eharmony. . .
McCain's age, moderate stance anc his distancing from BUSHdom lead to the Palin choice. But over the next 8 weeks the country will learn more and more about Palin, and there will be a lot of tainted ads slamming Obama and Biden. Hopefully something will be uncovered about Palin, the GOP under handed tactics and thus the people will seek the 'change' needed to move away from the path the Republicans have continue to steer us down over the last 8 years.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 12:07 PM
It's amazing... after 8 years of hell, the country is poised to hand the reigns back to the same crowd that got us into this mess!
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 12:41 PM
Dear Anonymous:
I said you were banned for a year. You posted anyway. Thus you are banned for life.
Everything you say will be deleted ASAP. You add nothing to this forum and you are no longer allowed to participate.
Hey, is there possibility of not allowing anonymous posts?
And many blogs have folk who 'consider' comments before being posted. . .
If folk aren't willing to identify themselves, maybe they want to go somewhere else.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 1:58 PM
Rusty:
I'll have to consider what you said. It is obvious that this so-called Anonymous works for a religious right organization. Such ignorant shills need to be banned.
posted by Wayne Besen, at
9/08/2008 2:07 PM
I was just watching some news on Palin on C&NN and now I think I'm even more inclined to vote for Obama then before,rather or not Obama helps turn this country around,it will be less scary then having Palin in office.
Chris L. at 11:09 : Yes, that's a good point that has to be considered too. I know what you mean (even with your very EXTREME world-is-flat example).
posted by Joey, at
9/08/2008 3:00 PM
If Patrick Sammon of the Log Cabin group thinks McCain is his man and the party is all-inclusive, then why weren't LGBT mentioned during the GOP convention? Why did McCain not acknowledge us if he is a friend of gay republicans? If he had, then perhaps some credence could be given to his claim that "change is coming". Clearly, it is not! More of the same past eight years.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 3:04 PM
But...again...let's be careful about labelling everything nonsensical that we don't see the logic in. Or at least let's not be 100 percent sure it means someone is incapable of sane political action. I know people who actually do speak in tongues when they go to Catholic Prayer Services (for healing of the sick), right here in NYC, and as absurd as that might seem to many, they are totally sane, nice, even open-minded and liberal people in general.
posted by Joey, at
9/08/2008 3:05 PM
I saw reports that Barbara Streisand is going to sing for Barack Obama. Have Democrats learned nothing about perceptions? I foresee an ad in which Governor Palin pokes fun at that whole scene. This would further the whole "celebrity" angle that has worked so well for McCain - and Palin would do it SPLENDIDLY.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 5:48 PM
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posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 6:33 PM
Anonymous -
Give it up. You sorry butt will never again post on this site. You may get a quick post - before it is deleted. But your BS will not stand. period.
Have a nice life. You abused your posting privilege and now you no longer exist.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 11:01 PM
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posted by Anonymous, at
9/08/2008 11:52 PM
Whichever Anonymous is on here defending Pentecostals is in need of a lobotomy. What a wanker to even entertain the idea. If you are gay, you cannot be a pentecostal. End of discussion. You have flipped out of your cottonpickin mind.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 1:43 AM
No politician should be using an altar as their stump. Get real. Get away from me and my country if all someone wants to do is say god is going to bring about armegeddon. Ah. What a bunch of neanderthals.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 1:46 AM
Anonymous: no no no no no no no no no no no no no. You are wrong. How dare you. You are defending the pentecostal view on homosexuality and demanding that we and me in particular have to swallow that bull lock stock and barrel as some sort of symbof of respecting gay pentecostals. NO. Gay pentecostals are screwed up in the head. That is all that can be said about all evangelicals but even more so for gay people who do it to themselves. You get your filthy twisted defense on the right side and maybe people would not be so hostile to you. If you think for one damn second that we gay men and women are going to even stand by and listen to their hate the way you seem to do so easily, you are out of your mind. You don't even have a logical thinking mind for defending them. You are a FOOL. A fool. YOu are so misguided that you think this conspiracy is behind this particular blogger and you accuse him of being paid by a bigger source in the ether of anti evangelicalism. You idiot. Pure and simple. What trash. DO NOT WASTE OUR TIME DRESSING HATE AS COMPASSION. We are not going to accept that for your sick belief system you do not even think about.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 2:04 AM
Republicans talk against religious zealots taking over in the middle east while campaigning in christian fundamentalist churches right here in this country doing exactly what they say is so dangerous. Hypocrisy. Send them back into their churches and keep them the fuck out of my secular government. They would be screaming my exact sentiments if it was any religion but their own.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 2:08 AM
No one has to insult you Anonymous. You do that all by yourself.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 2:10 AM
Anonymous: Does anyone notice that Obama cannot even be in the church as an audience member much less a worhsipping parishioner but this Palin piece of garbage can be up on the altar pontificating on behalf of alaskan pipe lines in the name of her god. "Wake up" can be the only message given to these simple minded voters who are gonna vote for McCain because "gee we like her so much." So much you will buy her the shredder for her to dispose of our constitution into, so much that you will stand by and observe her firing librarians who do not ban books, so much that you would excuse her disgraceful talk on the supernatural as a personal belief system as she acts like a damn tornado whereever she is fortunate enough to be used as the pawn she allows herself to be only to enrich herself as the republicunts fatten themselves and further stomp on the working poor and middle class which is probably you anonymous. You FOOL. FOOL. FOOL. Do feel free to vote for whoever you prefer because it is not going to be me who takes that right away from you like you seem to so easily open that door of possibility for yourself by supporting that right wing McCain and his Betty Boop in glasses to attempt doing to us again what has been forced on the world for the last eight years. They will continue to fire and go after all dissidents while preaching the very opposite as ideals they are so proud of upholding. Let me be the first to open up your mouth and puke my ecoli regurgitated meal into. You are my enemy anonymous and i will not relent. You are a paper tiger and many people are coming to see the words of the Republicrap are exactly that and no more. At least as long as we demand to be "WE THE PEOPLE."
posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 2:27 AM
We are in in a Depression folks. The government is making all of us pay the billions for Fannie and Freddie Mac. The stock market teeters on freefall every day while their wanton behavior is thrust on the backs of the working class. We are in a full blown Depression.
posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 3:17 AM
Wayne, again, he'll be back under a different guise. Maybe its Ethan, Theo??
posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 8:00 AM
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posted by Anonymous, at
9/09/2008 2:01 PM
site:http://www.waynebesen.com/2009
posted by Anonymous, at
8/05/2009 3:51 AM
